How does Jeremy Corbin justify knowing that people will never vote for his party as long as he’s heading it… but he will never leave?

[iwunderwhy]

I’m not debating whether people are right to dislike him or not BUT fairly or not he is pretty universally loathed which makes him a bit like being a 3 legged horse at the Derby.

If you're running a party, company, or country people have got to like you or at least deeply respect your talents and if neither is there surely the decent thing is to step aside.

For the life of me I can’t get my head around how anyone could keep doing this to a country they say they love. AIBU?

shprtstuff99 a few corrections for your own elementary paper response...

Showing support for the IRA he was part of the Good Friday negotiations, seeking a peaceful resolution to the troubles. Was Mo Molam a terrorist sympathiser? Was Bill Clinton? Anybody else seeking a peaceful resolution for a united Ireland? Just Corbyn, then, because it suits your narrative. Corbyn worked tirelessly with the British army and the IRA and military factions. You really do have to work with both sides...sll sides, if you want a result.

everyone over 18 can vote in this country as I said, a snap election allowed just 6 weeks of fair (legal) media coverage and the Labour vote rose by millions, creating a Tory loss that meant they could only form a government with a coalition (DUP and the billion pound bribe).

you accuse those who dare disagree with you of being a troll not the case. I suspect threads like this are trolls, not anyone who disagrees with me, primarily because the thrust of it is that Jeremy Corbyn is universally loathed, which he isn't. Plenty on here say the opposite.

Corbyn...has never achieved anything two international peace prizes, one of the longest-serving MPs, an unprecedented increase in membership for the party, the best manifesto since Clement Attlee and the foundations of the NHS, just 2000+ extra strategic votes would have seen him take Labour into power whilst (according to the London School of Economics) being the most smeared politician in UK history. That is one hell of an achievement on its own.

voting with the Tories 650 times ?? He has never voted with the Tories. If you mean breaking the whip over 500 times, that is very different. Breaking the whip means you abstain, refuse to vote or refuse to atrend the vote. It doesn't mean that you vote with another party.

wrecking labour see above re increased membership and increased voter share.

ineffective Marxist wannabes - do you know these people personally, know of them through others, or is this your cartoon baddie version of who they might be? I am in the party and the ineffective people within it are those without politics, just the wannabeism and they are mainly on the right of the party (careerist Blairites, if you like).

allowing a no deal Brexit Brexit was and is a Tory shit show. The public voted for Brexit. Labour had no power to prevent the referendum or influence the result other than through honest, decent campaigning. Corbyn literally went up and down the country campaigning for Remain. What did the media focus on? Johnson, Farage and the Brexit bus with its £350 million per week slogan. You really are blaming the wrong person here. The media edited, the public voted. Don't forget the role of Cambridge Analytica. Don't forget the lies...none of which were down to Corbyn. "Yes bur he didn't try, didn't provide effective opposition etc." Yes he did. Despite everything, 52-48 was a miracle achievement and not just from Corbyn / Labour, but from other Remain parties in the face of utter corrupt media interference and influence.

Allowing blatant racism to fester in his party again, not true. The appointment of the new General Secretary Jennie Formby has meant a swifter complaints process, investigations are launched as soon as possible after a complaint has been made and a dedicated team deals with complaints. It has never been so robust because Corbyn does not want racists in his party
Anybody can join a political party. Any racist, rapist, paedophile, thief. What we have to do is make sure that if those traits manifest themselves, they are dealt with. Out of 550,000 members (actual party members, not voters), 0.001% have been cautioned or expelled for racism, anti-Semitism and other stuff That is lower than in the general public, where racism, anti-Semitism etc. are much higher. So it is much less of a Labour problem than a societal problem. Both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia are much higher in the Tory party, but funnily enough, hey, look at Corbyn instead. Johnson is on record as a blatant racist: "Picaninnies, Muslim women looking like letter boxes..."

losing a general election I hope therefore that you voted for Labour otherwise blaming Corbyn for losing a GE would be a bit...weird of you if you didn'teven vote Labour. As I said, he came from a completrly disadvantaged position to come close to winning.

0 out of 10 for your sweeping statements lifted directly from the Daily Heil I mean Mail.

England is naturally conservative

In th south east maybe. But gerrymandering and no proportional representation mean that I agree with you, if Scottish people continue to vote for the SNP instead of labour we are going to have Tory governments for a very long time.

My northern english labour voting constituency was merged with a neighbouring labour voting constituency before the last election.

Corbyn was not part of the NI peace process in any way, shape or form. His only involvement was accompanying Livingstone on 1 (ONE) visit to the Maze but he was not there in an official, invited capacity, so 'tagging along' would be a more accurate description. Mowlam did actually stand up in parliament and condemn Corbyn for trying to meddle at one point. The 'corrections' above are pure fiction. The events of the Peace Process are fully documented and widely available to researchers.

the Labour vote rose by millions, creating a Tory loss

I remember the Tories losing quite a few votes by running a terrible election campaign. Fox hunting? Grammar Schools? The school funding cuts? Theresa May not turning up for a debate and sending Amber Rudd? I’m not sure that you can credit Labour with all the votes they gained, I’m pretty sure that quite a few were votes against the Tories rather than votes for Labour.

And yet even with that shitty, shitty Tory government, Labour didn’t win.

Out of 550,000 members (actual party members, not voters), 0.001% have been cautioned or expelled for racism, anti-Semitism and other stuff

Er yeah, I think that’s part of the problem. Party members not being expelled when they ought to be. The low figure isn’t on your side there.

Summerwhisper
The glaring error you have made there is that unlike Mo Mowlam and Bill Clinton, Corbyn was not at the time he was in contact with the IRA in a position of power where he was charged with brokering peace. He was a backbench MP on the opposition benches during the 1980s when he opposed the 1985 Northern Ireland agreement (and explicitly stated that he wanted to see Ireland reunified). And I'd like to see evidence that he was part of Mowlam's team that secured the Good Friday agreement, please.

labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/08/07/the-idea-that-jeremy-corbyn-laid-the-foundations-for-peace-in-northern-ireland-is-total-fantasy/

Corbyn had nothing to do with the NI pace process! It's an insult to those sensible and committed politicians who worked long and hard to broker peace to come up with nonsense like that. Why on earth would either side listen to a minor backbencher who had no say in the Labour government at the time and was clearly partisan?

I predicted that Ed Miliband would not win in the next general election. None of the working class people I knew said they would vote for him. A centrist labour party was perceived as a party primarily serving the MCs who had lost touch with the struggles of ordinary (traditional WC) people. That was my perception at the time and I was correct. The LP under JC received a lot of renewed support for that reason.

You talk about the improvements made under New Labour. Where I live I saw entire estates levelled, and replaced with 'Affordable housing' My area is now unrecognisable and totally unaffordable.
Student fees were also introduced. These things are very easily dismissed, but when people felt left behind they turned to fringe parties and in Scotland the SNP.

If you want a more centrist party with a bit of cred then the closest thing to it is The Liberal Democrats, but no ones talking about voting for them in any serious way are they?

Perhaps we should get rid of the First Past The Post system. Then it would at least be fairer towards the opposition, and loosen the power of the tabloids a bit. We always vote L or C time and time again. In the last few elections I've voted Green - mostly cause it keeps me mildly engaged in the democratic system and soothes my conscience- but it is almost the equivalent of throwing my vote away. It's virtually pointless.

Until the system changes we'll keep on bouncing between the 2 extremes. There are other parties that never get a look in and never get any mainstream press.

And as I said earlier, much as I might loathe the Conservatives, a different perception from those disgusted by it's current incarnation is that the conservatives have gone soft and all woolly liberal So (shrug).

Corbyn was not part of the Good Friday agreement negotiations. He was a disaffected back bencher at the time. He accused Adams and McGuiness of selling out and voted against preliminary legislation. He only talks with those he agrees with - the IRA, not the Unionists, Hamas and Iran, not Israel. Watch his Press TV appearances on YouTube, for which he trousered £20,000. No sign there of any attempt to convince them of the evil of their ways.

'Corbyn went up and down the country campaigning for Remain'. Corbyn went up and down the country building his base. He made only 10 speeches in 6 weeks. Google the BBC and Daily Mirror fact-checkers on this false claim, reluctantly confirmed by his own website. He put off Labour's launch because he had a CND meeting he wanted to attend and took a holiday in the middle. Many reports of his speech at said rallies. 25 mins on the evil Tories and 5 mins of 'oh, btw, there's a referendum going on, mumble, mumble'. His office routinely sabotaged the efforts of the official Labour Remain campaign. It was his behaviour during the campaign that was the last straw for the PLP, who voted 197 to 40 that they had no confidence in his leadership. Unprecedented.

We'd have heard a lot more of Corbyn during the campaign if his office had bloody returned somephone calls and accepted invitations to take part in TV and radio progs. Just ask any journalist.

If you kept up to date with the way AS complaints are being handled, you would know that speeding them up has been achieved by downgrading sanctions so those who would previously have merited, by the guidelines, 'requires investigation' now just get a letter telling them not to do it again. And the Leader's office is more closely involved than before. Appointing the daughter of one of Corbyn's Commie advisers, seconded from Unite, to be i/c the process is a slap in the face for those who genuinely care about AS.

The ECHR have never felt the need to investigate the Tories for institutional racism. Only the BNP has previously been shamed in this way. It's disgusting.

The rest is just c and p from Momentum talking points. Man of peace etc etc. Yes - Chair of Stop this Particular War, but keep quiet about anything involving the Russians or their proxies, like Assad.

The LP is now controlled by a splinter group of admirers of Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky and members of the Tooting Popular Front. The sort of organisations like AWL, SWP, CPGB, and TUSC. When they stand in a GE they get around 300 votes, if they're lucky. And that is what will happen to the once great Labour Party if it continues on this disastrous path.

Corbyn has been a lifeong Eurosceptic. Labour did absolutely nothing to campaign for remain and have done nothing since, either way. The only time he used any conviction at all on Brexit was when he put a 3 line whip on his MP's to vote to trigger A50.

Pretending everything is peachy with the LP and all criticism is the right wing media bias in an age of social media and when most print media are dying on their arses. The most frustrating thing about the LP is that they so tend so much time viciously attacking other Labour Party supporters, members and MP's yet when it comes to the actual work of holding the government to account or coming up with a credible Brexit policy, they are weak.

SummerWhisper

So you consider Corbyn’s political career to be a sucess then? Sure!

Corbyn played zero part in the NI peace process so don’t tell blatant lies.

SummerWhimper ineffective Marxist wannabes - do you know these people personally

I don’t know them
Personally but I’ve seen McDonnel admit he’s a Marxist on video, and I’ve seen him read from Mao’s red book in parliament, I’ve seen Abott defend it on TV and I’ve seen Corbyn and McDonnel appear in public under pictures of Stalin. I don’t think you can attribute that to the so called ‘right wing media’ thanks

Labour have had an open goal for years and done nothing. Corbyn took a photo op in Morecambe rather than speak at the rally in London. And I don't think the change in PM has made Labour progress more likely.

Labour have had an open goal for years and done nothing

This. Any of the other leadership contenders in 2015 would have likely won the snap election. I am a Tory voter but half the reason the Torys are so crap is Corbyn. And I would vote Labour tomorrow if there was a sensible moderate centrist to oppose BoJo

Just saw this on twitter. The economy has shrunk, a recession is feared, and Labour say they haven’t got anyone to go on Channel 4 News to stick it to the government?

That’s weird, right?

@colourlessgreenidea
Corbyn is the best thing that's happened to the Labour Party
He’s definitely the best thing that’s happened to the Conservative party.

The economy has shrunk... sock it to the Torys

0.2% decline .... it’s hardly the -5% that followed Gordon Browns illustrious tenure as Chancellor, no need for any socking yet but give BoJo and Brexit a chance and I’m sure cretin Corbyn will miss many more opportunities to make political capital.

Out of interest would you like to know what Corbyn chose to do instead in the last 24 hours? Reading to a cat on international cat day. Is there honestly nothing more important to do as leader of the opposition

mobile.twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1159471151594127361?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Just saw this on twitter. The economy has shrunk, a recession is feared, and Labour say they haven’t got anyone to go on Channel 4 News to stick it to the government? confused

That’s weird, right?

I thought the same thing. Makes you wonder what's going on.

I certainly think a lot of people voted Labour despite him rather than because of him last election - I'm one of them. I don't hate him and some of his policies seem reasonable to me but I think he's shockingly bad at reaching out to people who aren't already his core supporters. He's not bringing the party together but making it more cliquey. I think it would be a good thing if he went.

Maybe I should start a separate thread but what I don't get is why it's such a sin to be a moderate anything these days. I'm still a left of centre liberal but I feel like virtually everyone else has run one way or the other. Did the Internet do this??

TiggerSnooze

Corbyn is an extremist who believes in a hard left doctrine.

The Torys are viewed by some as ‘far right’ but to those who have studied politics and political theory and actually understand what these words mean and what defines position on the political spectrum, rather than just using words from Facebook posts and quoting similarly daft friends, Blair, May, Cameron and Johnson are all extremely close on the political spectrum and that is in the centre of just off. The Conservatives introduced scores of socially positive policies for example by ending ‘no fault’ evictions and focusing the police on domestic abuse, that was straight from May but of course that’s not what they’re known for on here.

I like him and I joined the Labour Party because of him. I wish he were pro EU but at least he’s a genuine socialist who cares about social justice for everyone.

I think he could win a general election. Last time around his Labour Party slashed the Tory majority.

It doesn't matter if you love or hate Jeremy Corbyn, read the Labour manifesto, that is what you should be considering when you vote & how hard your local MP works both in parliament & in the community. I think that Jeremy Corbyn will make an excellent PM, he cares about the ordinary people, unlike the Conservatives who only want to line the pockets of the well off. I truly hope the no confidence vote comes off & the rest of parliament forces the No deal Brexit that Boris wants to be abandoned.

Labour currently have 247 MPs - that means they need a net gain of 75 MPs to gain a bare majority. Those MPs won’t be coming from Scotland, so... 75 net gains in England and Wales by Magic Grandpa. Yeah.