horrible arguement last night -i am right to be angy ?

[Bravenewworld1]

last night me and DH had an argument . we were all sitting at the dinner table- me , dh and our 2 children aged 12 and 10. I had made a meal, he had gone out got a bottle of wine - not something we usually do- the wine I mean so I was really looking forward to it.
it all started really well. anyway we were talking about a film we had both seen and explaining what it was about to our daughter. I looked over and he gave me a disgusted look. I asked him if he was ok and he said ' you deliberately interrupted me like I'm invisible you always do this you are horrible and rude'. I was shocked I really didn't think that happened at all .. I thought he had stopped speaking but he must have just paused and I said something during the pause. so yes I may have inadvertently interrupted him but in no way did I deliberately do this. he has said it with real venom and I was really upset. we hadn't even started drinking so I cant blame it on that. I just starting crying . I couldn't eat I was too upset. dh got up and went upstairs. then I got really angry- I felt that the way he spoke to me was really out of order. anyway I did something bad. I followed him upstairs . he had gone into the bathroom to have a shower. now I know this is wrong of me as I wasn't respecting his privacy or right to be alone but I burst into the bathroom and started shouting that I did nothing deliberately and that he was out of order . anyway he shouted go away and pushed me out of the bathroom with such force that I fell to the floor. we have not spoken since.

Op having read some of your previous posts it sounds as though you have both been desperately unhappy for years.
Have you considered separating?

Just on the basis off this thread, not read your others, HE was unfair saying what he did in front of your dcs. YOU were unfair following him to carry it on, then invading his privacy in the bathroom???? Not on.
Did you fall or were you pushed? Huge difference imo

I'm shocked at the number of posts blaming the OP here.

She and her husband were having what she thought was a pleasant conversation, and then he shot her down with a really nasty remark, made in a tone of 'real venom'. OP is reduced to tears - as it's so easy to be when you are verbally attacked out of the blue. She follows her husband - which she admits wasn't wise - but her wish to have him put things right by acknowledging he was out of order is completely understandable - and he shoves her so hard she falls over.

And people are saying this is her fault because, from nowhere, they've deduced that she may possibly have an annoying habit of interrupting conversations .

Even if the OP did have this habit (and there's no evidence she does), there is no excuse for turning a pleasant occasion into something horrible in a few seconds with a verbal attack. Her husband could have brought this up calmly and neutrally.

Awful behaviour from your husband, OP. If he is like this all the time, you should consider your future with him.

If he is physically strong enough to push her over, then he is physically strong enough to move past her and remove himself from the bathroom. - he tried to remove himself from the situation and she followed him to scream more abuse at him. He was naked (presumably) and shoved her out of the room, rather than continue the argument or 'remove himself from the bathroom'.

OP - your previous threads show a pattern. He doesn't like you, much less love you. You are manipulative (crying? Over this? ) and your poor kids are caught up, watching how to 'parent' and how to 'relationship'.

Get out now. For all your sakes.

Interesting that for all the OPs previous posts back in 2015 and 2016, things presumably have been OK for the last three years until this latest incident?

Nah, I can't see that, can you?

You both bring out the worst in each other and your kids WILL be well aware. Do yourselves but mostly them a favour and split the fuck up.

Op the rights and wrongs are irrelevant now. Other posters are saying they have read your pp's and this is part of a long term dynamic. Be the bigger person here and end this relationship. It will have changed you massively from the person you really are and thatis why you post a lot. It's a normal human thing to do. The relationship has lost who you really are and the same thing has happened to your husband. Sometimes two perfectly decent people become toxic together and that sounds like what is happening here. Your DH is clearly not going to call time as men often do not for a tonne of reasons. Call time. Do the adult and decent thing. Get advice. Separate. Divorce. You will both cool down and co parent and may even become friends but this is not working for any of you but the kids will pay the price of your refusing to see the toxicity and taking action.

@GhostRidersInDisguise

Sometimes two perfectly decent people become toxic together

This is one of the best things I've read on Mumsnet - it's so true. I've been part of this dynamic before and look back and cringe at my behaviour.

My current DP wouldn't recognise who I was in previous relationships as I feel secure and safe with him so it brings it the best in me.

I've been a fantastic girlfriend (if I do say so) in some relationships and a fucking awful one in others. I wish I had left the toxic relationships sooner.

OP why did you start this thread? What were you looking for. Because you’re ignoring all the advice and not responding to anything being said!

I think he over reacted.
How do you know if someone has finished talking ?.
Do you sit there and wait ?.
Humans tend to pick up on when chatting is done and when to have your input.
I would however tell him to never push you again and you should never barge into the bathroom when he is in there.
I feel for the children,not a nice thing to see or hear.

The overall sense I get from your post is that his behaviour is out of character - wine, argumentative, anger, pushing you - so what's going on with him..? I'd be inclined to back off completely but become discretely observant of him.

Sometimes two perfectly decent people become toxic together

Oh god, yes.

This may be just that. I am checked out the other threads since others mentioned them and the pattern is quite clear.
OP does something, DH gets annoyed and comments, OP shouts and then there is a silence time. Bar the birthday party. That was shitty of him.

You two are not working very well together, are you...

FYI people, it doesn't take "such a force" to push someone so they fall. I am pretty confident I could do it with one hand, when the other person doesn't expect it.

You're really fucking your kids up with this example of a toxic relationship and then having to live with abusive behaviour.

You both tick all the boxes, blow ups, silent treatment that can last over a week. Crying instead of talking. Now there's actual physical confrontations added in.

" I have a right to not eat if I loose my appetite because someone has been nasty to me."

So if you are called out, you'll happily ruin every family meal?

Your thread in 2015 is about you hogging the conversation. Is it true or not?

There's countless threads about manipulative toxic relatives (usually Women) doing that. They then wonder why no-one wants to share a celebration with them, especially Christmas.

OP you should have ended your marriage years ago, for all your sakes.

What a depressing thread ... I’m so sorry OP that you are getting such a hard time. His behaviour at the dinner table was unnecessary and vile and it doesn’t surprise me that he has form for it. Other posters are correct though, you need to find a way to leave him x

OP why did you start this thread?

I would hazard she wanted lots of sympathy and cheerleading over her snarling abusive husband for validation.

What she didn’t bank on were posters seeing beyond the highly emotive and melodramatic style of writing and calling her out on her own shitty, aggressive and manipulative behaviour and unreliable narration.

As I said, I suspect deep overtones of Roxanne Pallet re ‘the shove’. Which is despicable and disgusting as it’s playing on the very important “I believe her” mantra. It only harms genuine victims of DV more.

Not saying the husband is a saint by any means, but we don’t have his side and we certainly will never really know what happened.

If other posters are right and this is a pattern in a long-term toxic relationship then they should split as they have kids.

If it were just them then it wouldn’t matter if they were the 21st Century Sid n Nancy if it’s only themselves they are destroying.

And they should invest in long-term therapy for those children too, they must already be deeply damaged by this and have a very warped blueprint of what relationships look like.

OP, of what other posters are saying is true and your marriage is full of instances like this, you need to get out. You and your husband don't seem at all well suited to each other. Screaming fights is not remotely normal - and it could well escalate from here.

Your kids will be happier without their parents bringing out the worst in each other and creating a hostile home environment.

He was out of order all he had to say was i hadnt finished yet-not youre horrible and rude in an insulting way

My friend does it all the time not in a malicious way shes always done it i dont shout at her though thats shes horrible for it

You were wrong to confront him in the shower. But NOTHING excuses him pushing you over like that! Has he been violent like that before?

I think this incident suggests quite a serious communication problem between you. His violence is not OK. I really do recommend seeking help from a counsellor, as a couple.

Or talk over your partner as if they aren’t there, already speaking, in front of the children.

We don't know that that happened! I think the OP is getting a really hard time here. Ultimately we weren't there, the OP says she really doesn't think she did and certainly didn't do it intentionally, and was accused of "deliberately" doing it and being "horrible and rude" with a dirty look. Possibly she did accidentally do it, possibly she does it a lot, or possibly he was spoiling for a fight or possibly he is even emotionally abusive. Some of the vitriol here is very full on and OP I advise you too to get this moved to Relationships, you'll get a less reactive discussion there.

He is a man who never admits to being wrong. when I raise any concerns he totally dismisses what I have to say- I tend to raise my voice due to sheer frustration he tells me i am shouting ( when I am not) and then he tells me i am abusive and a nasty person. then he will ignore me for afew days.

I can see how years and years of dealing with a drip, drip, drip of stuff like this could have led to this latest incident. He wouldn't be the first coercive controller to drive his victim to the brink so he could say "look, it's her, I'm the victim here".

Four years ago you tried to leave but he accused you of kidnapping your children and threatened to call the police. Are you afraid of what he'd do if you tried again? Are you afraid of being alone if/when your health condition progresses?

Op, I don't know what you hoped for here, if you just wanted somewhere to vent or if you wanted someone to give you a magic fix or something else...

Asking for help doesn't mean you have to leave, it just means you're asking for help. People can then give you info, and you can decide what to do with it.

I can't tell from your posts if this is definitely coercive control, but it's indicative of it. If you want to talk to people who won't judge you or make demands on you, but may be able to help you start making sense of the bigger picture and figuring out what you want to do about it, then you can always speak to Women's Aid or phone or email or attend the Freedom Programme. 0808 2000 247 for WA, or www.freedomprogramme.co.uk for their contact details.

Sorry but you are completely at fault here. You may not realise you constantly interrupt him but obviously this is something he believes is happening a lot and he clearly has some festering resentment. I’m just shocked you overreacted in such a manner in front of your children.

You also should not have followed him, that is all manners of wrong. He walked away from the situation and you followed trying to further the argument. I’m not saying he had any right to get physical but you shouldn’t have spurred him on, he was trying to calm down.

Overall you just plainly overreacted. Crying and kicking off because he called you out on something sounds quite controlling.

About the interrupting: we don't really know who's doing what. Maybe the OP does constantly interrupt without realizing; or maybe the husband uses the accusation of interrupting as a means of controlling the conversation. (When Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, she used to frequently complain about being interrupted, and social psychologists, etc. tried to see whether this was happening because she was not giving certain signals to indicate that she was still continuing to speak further. But in fact it turned out that she was not being interrupted more often than anyone else, and seemed to be using the accusation as a political technique.) Obviously no one on Mumsnet knows which it is. But even if the OP is a chronic interrupter, there's a difference between saying 'I wish you wouldn't keep interrupting me!' and calling them 'rude and horrible!#

Exactly. Even if she was interrupting, there was no malice intended, it sounds like she was enjoying the conversation round the dinner table and he suddenly changed the tone of the whole thing by having a go at her. When it’s unexpected like that it seems uncalled for, untimely and hurtful. He didn’t need to be so aggressive and insulting. He started on her, yet she should just apologise??

I’m just shocked you overreacted in such a manner in front of your children

That's the bit you think is overreacting in front of the children - crying? (Largely involuntary) not the calling OP "horrible and rude", accusing her of doing it deliberately and then storming off?

Having been witness to pretty similar exchanges between my parents over the dinner table over the years, I know which I think is the over reaction.

To some PPs - honestly? Calling OP manipulative, hystrionic, "with shades of Roxanne Pallet"?? Going through old threads to try and discredit her? When you don't even know her or her husband or what really happened? You should all be ashamed of yourselves IMO.

Wow, this thread is an absolute shitshow. I never thought I'd see hundreds of women defending a man who pushed his wife over.

OP please leave your husband for the sake of your kids. They shouldn't have to witness the snide comments, the shouting and hearing their mum be pushed over. You are damaging them by staying.