Was I BU telling a woman not to speak to my son?

[Spinoni]

I realise I might be. But in the moment I was so annoyed.

In Sainsbury’s with DD 8 months and DS4
Son wants to go down toy isle- we don’t often to to Sainsburys so he was overly excited. As all 4 year olds are while looking for toys!

Go to the isle, he is looking and I noticed the ‘ boy ‘ toys were down the next isle.
By boy toys I mean toys I know he likes toys he has toys he’s into and toys that are quite frankly marketed at boys.
Me - ‘ ooo look DS name the boys toys are over here ‘
Interfering woman down isle to my son - ‘ you know you can play with whatever you want let your mummy know that ‘

FIRSTLY I was annoyed that I’m not ‘ forcing ‘ him to ‘ boys ‘ toys. It’s stuff I know he wants.
SECONDLY why even say anything?

The thing I massively regret is saying anything.
I said pardon?
And she replied ‘ Sorry it was just the way you said boys toys - when he can play with whatever he wants he shouldn’t be told their just for boys ‘

I replied probably not too politely telling her to mind her own business and I’ll parent how I want to and walked away.
And I could then hear her and another customer talking about me saying how rude I was ?
Was I BU?
I feel mortified I just was angry that something I said was interpreted as me forcing my son into something it’s ridiculous

OP I'm with you on this one

And more pertinently for OP:

Does not matter if you were right or wrong on the wording you used (I personally don't agree with it) . The point is SHE was rude to talk to your son criticising your parenting.

So at what age it becomes acceptable to divide people by their gender? Why men and women are “allowed” to have gender specific clothing, like high heels and skirts for women, suits for men, etc. Why is it ok for grown ups to have products targeted at different genders, but frowned upon when they are kids? The shops are divided into men/women/kids sections, and no one is complaining about it...

The only time I've ever said anything to anyone in this sort of situation was when I overheard a Grandma tell her Granddaughter, about 6 years old, that "Girls don't play with bows and arrows" when we were at a Visitor Centre and the little girl wanted a toy Archery set.

I turned and said "They absolutely do!". I had actually just picked one up myself for my own daughter, so it may have looked like I was passing one to her to prove a point, but I wasn't.

I think it's good to make sure the children know that they CAN play with whatever they like, but try not to humiliate parents (or whoever is responsible for said children) in the process.

No wonder he thinks they’re “boys toys” if that’s what you call them. (Or no wonder that’s what he likes if you call them that). But YANBU, she was rude, I’d have ignored you as a lost cause. 🙄

I also HATE it when people say 'boys toys' and 'girls toys'. It's so utterly depressing.

There was a programme on the BBC and they took a baby boy and dressed him in pink, frilly 'girly' clothes and vice versa with a female baby. Then they put out a load of gender specific pink/blue toys.

They asked strangers to go in and play with the baby. When the strangers thought they were playing with a baby girl, they forced 'pink' toys on the child, even when the baby leaned more toward the cars/tractors then person would keep giving the baby a doll even taking the boy toy off the baby girl. Same the other way round when they had a girl baby dressed in blue.

When they revealed the experiment to the people, they were very shocked as they didn't realise they did this.

Children quickly learn to lean towards gender specific toys, because that's what's expected of them.

Anyway, the woman probably should have just kept her nose out, but maybe it will give you food for thought.

Of course your son is allowed to choose whatever toy he likes. He happens to have chosen ones that tend to be favoured by boys. All fine. Just think though that you are telling him that those toys are for boys. So when he goes to school and tells a girl that she can't play with those because she's a girl, that is what you have taught him.

@LolaSmiles
"Why anyone would say "the boy's toys are over there" rather than "the character you like /the cars ... Are down there" is beyond me unless there is a belief in boys and girls toys."
I think there is generally a belief that certain toys are for girls and certain ones are for boys. There is obviously an overlap for some toys.

Same as with having sections for Ladies' and Men's clothes.

So much money is spent on marketing and advertising and the people that do it aren't stupid. They know who their products appeal to. If they weren't displayed as most stores do, split roughly into boys' and girls' toys, I bet customers would hate it. It would take so much more time to look through and find ones you want to buy.

I probably would have said the same as the OP, knowing he liked those toys which are generally bought by/for boys. There's nothing wrong with saying that.

I would have been pissed off if some interfering shopper had said that to my DS too. It's not her business to foist her unasked for opinion on a child she didn't even know or on the OP.

The point is SHE was rude to talk to your son criticising your parenting.

I don't think she was rude to talk to the OP's child at all. I've met many children who felt like they couldn't show they enjoyed a certain toy or activity that their parents perceived as being for the opposite gender. If these children hear from another adult that its actually fine to like those things despite what their mum or dad says then hopefully that might start to counteract the constant drip, drip, drip of what they are expected to play with or how they are expected to behave.

I don't think you were rude enough

I say boys and girls toys as do everyone I know. I don’t care what people think of that. She was a twat

So at what age it becomes acceptable to divide people by their gender? Why men and women are “allowed” to have gender specific clothing, like high heels and skirts for women, suits for men, etc. Why is it ok for grown ups to have products targeted at different genders, but frowned upon when they are kids? The shops are divided into men/women/kids sections, and no one is complaining about it...
To probably oversimplify there are men and women and many ways of being a man or a woman that aren't stupid stereotypes that are taught from a young age.

The difference in men's and women's clothing is because men and women have fundamentally different body shapes (obviously).

The fact we still have to have 'men into early years' campaigns, 'women into STEM' shows how deeply rooted these stereotypes are.

Wouldn't it be much better to work towards a society where kids aren't being directed to specific things based on some nonsensical wooly idea of gender stereotypes and we just let them be boys and girls with a range of interests?

She was spot on

Full marks to her for having the guts to pull you up on it tbh

YANBU. This is the problem with people getting on their high horses and passing comment without any context whatsoever.

OP made an off the cuff comment because her DS generally prefers the toys that are traditionally targeted at boys. Most boys tend to prefer those toys over toys that are traditionally targeted at girls. That's how the stereotypes exist in the first place (and I say that as a woman who preferred playing with train sets and lego over dolls as a kid).

As long as OP is not forcing her DS to play with toys he doesn't like, or stopping him from playing with 'girly' toys, I don't see the issue. The stranger in the supermarket made an assumption and was rude in making a comment.

^I think people saying my son only likes ‘ boys ‘ toys because of what I’ve ‘ forced ‘ is quite wrong.
As previously stated he can play with whatever the hell he wants but I do believe that certain toys are aimed at boys and certain toys are aimed at girls and I don’t think that makes me this bad parent I’m being portrayed at for saying it.^

Yet in the supermarket you redirected him to the boys toys and you even called them boys toys.

I would have thought the same as the person in the shop. And I would have been a bit judgemental. I wouldnt have said anything.

You were not unreasonable.

OP, prod-nosed other shopper should have been dragged to the ‘girls’ toy aisle and had a pink unicorn horn shoved where the sun don’t shine. I would probably told her to piss off and considered following it up by projectile pissing on her for good measure. I am very generous that way

So when he goes to school and tells a girl that she can't play with those because she's a girl, that is what you have taught him

I had the neighbours boys do that to my daughter when she was about three. She was very upset and couldn't understand why she wasn't to play with the toys too. Why being a girl meant she couldn't.

And it was because their parents had told them that . Those are boys toys. And the little boys took it literally. That's what their parents taught them.

And as long as we teach children from basically birth there are gender stereotypes they should computer with then they will continue to exist.

And gender stereotypes are never wholly benign.

So at what age it becomes acceptable to divide people by their gender? Why men and women are “allowed” to have gender specific clothing, like high heels and skirts for women, suits for men, etc.

After puberty when boys and girls body shapes diverge quite significantly, on average, and therefore need clothes that are cut to fit that body shape. Women wear suits. Men would be more likely to wear dresses if they were made to fit men's bodies and it wasn't seen by society to be so awful and degrading to be 'feminine'.

Toys have nothing to do with bodies or biology. Babies and toddlers have very similar body types. Therefore there's no need to separate them by sex or gender.

Well, she was probably brave to say it but I would have been thinking exactly the same thing. Gender bias is so ridiculous and irritates me that in 2019 parents are still propagating it. Nobody can really think that boys have some genetically pre-programmed desire to wear blue or choose a blue toy and girls pink. It is all bollocks and should be challenged.

She shouldn't have said anything. But YABU to think that parents, advertisers and society in general aren't responsible for creating these gendered preferences in children. Not only by overtly saying 'these are for boys', those are for girls, but by a million and one subconscious and more subtle nudges and differences in treatment of boys and girls.

Yanbu op. The woman was an interfering cow.
No-one on Mumsnet (or the wider world) is going to lecture me about how I describe toys. Op, don’t you let them either. You knew exactly what you meant.
Far too much hoiking of bosoms and pontificating around here 🙄

Well done you, interfering old bat.

@Spinoni Meh, don't sweat it. You've done nothing wrong. Some people are just nosy and think the whole world needs to hear their opinions.

There is, and always will be, a segregation of toys (and things in general,) for boys, and for girls. And so what?

I was given dolls, and little knitting & sewing sets, and toy ironing boards, and a little toy oven, and a 'cooking set' in the late 1970s when I was a little girl. It didn't stop me playing with my dad's mechano, my brother's lego and toy soldiers and toy cars, and kicking a football around with my dad and uncle, OR sitting with my dad while he tinkered around with his car, watching him, asking him what he was doing, and helping him!

Oddly, nobody made a fuss about girls being given dolls, knitting sets, toy cooking utensils, and toy ironing boards some 35-40 years ago, because back then, people weren't moany, precious, whingebags, who thought it was an utter outrage to say 'this is a girl's toy' and 'this is a boy's toy!!

Seriously, some people have too much time on their hands. Get a life, seriously.........

For the record, despite being given dolls, toy ironing boards, toy ovens and cooking utensils, and knitting and sewing sets when I was a child, I now work in horticulture! And despite having 2 kids, I have always worked. Fancy that eh?!

As for the posters saying they have girls in their family who have had occasions when they have been most upset that they are 'not allowed' to play with the BOYS TOYS, .... I call bullshit. Never in my life have I ever known any girl be told they are not allowed to play with a 'boys toy.' AND I have never known a boy be told he cannot play with a toy that is technically made for girls.

Utter parp.