Was I BU telling a woman not to speak to my son?

[Spinoni]

I realise I might be. But in the moment I was so annoyed.

In Sainsbury’s with DD 8 months and DS4
Son wants to go down toy isle- we don’t often to to Sainsburys so he was overly excited. As all 4 year olds are while looking for toys!

Go to the isle, he is looking and I noticed the ‘ boy ‘ toys were down the next isle.
By boy toys I mean toys I know he likes toys he has toys he’s into and toys that are quite frankly marketed at boys.
Me - ‘ ooo look DS name the boys toys are over here ‘
Interfering woman down isle to my son - ‘ you know you can play with whatever you want let your mummy know that ‘

FIRSTLY I was annoyed that I’m not ‘ forcing ‘ him to ‘ boys ‘ toys. It’s stuff I know he wants.
SECONDLY why even say anything?

The thing I massively regret is saying anything.
I said pardon?
And she replied ‘ Sorry it was just the way you said boys toys - when he can play with whatever he wants he shouldn’t be told their just for boys ‘

I replied probably not too politely telling her to mind her own business and I’ll parent how I want to and walked away.
And I could then hear her and another customer talking about me saying how rude I was ?
Was I BU?
I feel mortified I just was angry that something I said was interpreted as me forcing my son into something it’s ridiculous

Complete stranger talking to your child was unreasonable. You saying boys toys is fine. My dd would ask where the boys aisle was because she loved superheroes, i never once felt the need to correct her and give her a lecture on how toys/clothing are gender neutral. She grew up perfectly fine, she didn't turn into a 1950s housewife or have an identity crisis because of boys toys and girls toys instead of just toys

I agree that this 'boys toys' and 'girls toys' nonsense is damaging. She was quite rude to lecture you though. I wouldn't have told her to 'fuck off' in front of my kid like some classy people have suggested but I do like this response:

i'd have been passive aggressive back at her - looked her in the eye, then looked at ds and reminded him about we never talk to strangers because you can't trust them

So what is so different in men’s body shape that they can’t wear a mini skirt or high heels? Or a full face of make up? I met many men with better legs than mine, none would wear a mini skirt. On the other hand, I know lots of very feminine women in academia, it really Is not as straight forward as some want to believe.

Playing with a Thomas the tank engine will not turn a girl into a STEM genius, in the same way as letting them play with a pink pram won’t stop them from achieving their goals later in life.

YABU
Does he play with the toys with his genitals?
No?
Then they are just toys.

So at what age it becomes acceptable to divide people by their gender? Why men and women are “allowed” to have gender specific clothing, like high heels and skirts for women, suits for men, etc. Why is it ok for grown ups to have products targeted at different genders, but frowned upon when they are kids? The shops are divided into men/women/kids sections, and no one is complaining about it...

People are beginning to complain about it. And it's not that adults are 'allowed' to have sex-specific clothes. They were born into a world which expects them to have sex-specific clothes. The rules hàve relaxed a bit over the years for women (being allowed to wear trousers and less 'feminine' clothing). But it's still not acceptable for men to wear dresses etc because it's ok for a woman to dress as a man, but a man looking like a woman is seen as laughable and degrading because women were seen as inferior.

Never in my life have I ever known any girl be told they are not allowed to play with a 'boys toy.' AND I have never known a boy be told he cannot play with a toy that is technically made for girls.

You are very lucky to have never come across these attitudes but I'm sad to say they do exist and I've seen them repeatedly during my time as a teacher. When you have experienced children crying because they cannot wear a certain role play costume or play with the construction bricks because mummy or daddy wouldn't like it and would be cross then your attitude definitely changes.

Some people (mostly middle class women in their 40's I've noticed) are so eager to be seen as politically correct that they forget all about having manners. You have every right to describe the toys that your DS likes in any way you see fit OP and don't let that rude interfering cow or anyone else tell you any different.

Oddly, nobody made a fuss about girls being given dolls, knitting sets, toy cooking utensils, and toy ironing boards some 35-40 years ago, because back then, people weren't moany, precious, whingebags, who thought it was an utter outrage to say 'this is a girl's toy' and 'this is a boy's toy!!

Back when women knew their place was in the kitchen you mean?! Oh Dear

I hate the way toys are divided by boys/ girls. But she was being incredibly rude.

I think what you said was wrong, but she shouldn't have pulled you up on it in public.

Surely toys should NOT be marketed to a specific gender, and should not be in separate aisles.

Well I'm glad they are, mostly.

My niece likes 'girls toys'. When looking for a bday present for her on one website I was on, you couldn't filter by girls or boys. I had to trawl through loads of irrelevant cars and fuck knows what - in the end I left the site and went on another one. It might have been Smyths, but could have been Argos. I can't remember.

But basically, there are people that still want to filter by girl/boy. Why should all this woke shit trump that? Everyone's opinion or preference is equally valid, despite what other people may think.

I think there is generally a belief that certain toys are for girls and certain ones are for boys. Same as with having sections for Ladies' and Men's clothes it isn't the same, my DH does not need a bra and has a different hip-waist ratio. My DD and DS have quite similar hands for operating various toys.

@Banangana

I agree that this 'boys toys' and 'girls toys' nonsense is damaging.

Oh FFS.

The issue is people who behave as rhe op is don't think of the wider repercussions.

From birth their child is bought thr boys toys, thr blue rabbit, the cars, the train set. And if they approach the wrong aisle in the supermarket they are immediately corrected. "No tommy, uou got it wrong, you're a boy, the toys you can play with are over there".

Or they are dressed as princesses and ballerinas, with their finger and toe nails painted, told to look at the pretty stuff, given the dollies and as much pink shite as they can handle.

And then they go to school. And those little boys see another little boy playing with a doll.

And they bully him for being different. For not conforming. He's a cissy. He's playing with the girls toys. Let's beat him up. Let's laugh at him, Because he's different.

Or they tell the little girl. You're not to pay with our transformers, they are for boys, you're a girl. You have to go away and play with your dollies and your pram. You can't play with the boys toys.m

And so the cycle continues,

@AryaStarkWolf

Get a grip, seriously.

@AryaStarkWolf

Your post (aimed at me) doesn't even make sense!

Calm down. No need to froth.

I was given dolls, and little knitting & sewing sets, and toy ironing boards, and a little toy oven, and a 'cooking set' in the late 1970s when I was a little girl. It didn't stop me playing with my dad's mechano, my brother's lego and toy soldiers and toy cars

I didn't have a brother, I had to play with the meccano of the boy next door. Because people bought me dolls and ironing boards instead of the 'boys' meccano that I really wanted..

No-one on Mumsnet (or the wider world) is going to lecture me about how I describe toys

Fine, but then what was the point of the OP coming on AIBU in the first place?

I'm sure I see the point of people posting an AIBU and then refusing to reconsider in the light of majority opinion. Isn't the whole point of posting on here that you get challenged?

A child who hears the phrase "Boys toys" is obviously going to think that some toys are for boys and some for girls. You're either OK with this or you're not but it's a bit daft to think that you can use the phrase and still expect a child to assume "it's OK to play with any toy I like."

Errk, should be "not sure" in earlier post

@zeezee3 do you have anything of substance to add?

@Spinoni

Pay no attention to the posters spouting parp like you should not be saying 'boys toys' and 'girls toys.' You get ALL sorts on here.

People who whine and froth at nothing.

Must lead a blessed life. Lucky them

Bluntness100 DD (age 5 at the time btw) was tormented by a group of girls in her class for not being a "proper girl" because she was into dinosaurs and football.

Her ambition is to play professional football incidentally.

She plays with all kinds of toys, as do/did her brothers.

DSD2 had a Tinkerbell fascination from the age of 3-4. He went to nursery dressed up more times than I can count. Because he was 3 years old and if he wanted to dress as bloody Tinkerbell I wasn't going to stop him!

So what is so different in men’s body shape that they can’t wear a mini skirt or high heels? Or a full face of make up? I met many men with better legs than mine, none would wear a mini skirt.
Who knows when we get past the point of socialising every ounce of life by stereotypes maybe there'll be more men who want to buy those clothes tailored for the male figure.

Until then shops don't make what doesn't sell. I've been looking for hard wearing maternity active wear and there are more blogs complaining about the lack of options than there are options. Alas, until more pregnant women want to spend their money on those things the offer is going to be reduced.

There's a few make up ranges that have been released aimed at men and male grooming of late actually. There's also been male grooming salons becoming more of a mainstream thing.

Society changes as social norms change. It takes time to break social norms and narrow gender stereotypes. The more that can be done to show there are many ways to be a boy/girl, man/woman, that playing dress up as a princess is fine for boys and girls, that science is for all, the better.

Playing with a Thomas the tank engine will not turn a girl into a STEM genius, in the same way as letting them play with a pink pram won’t stop them from achieving their goals later in life.
Playing with a pram on its own won't so anything but it it's part of lots of praise for being so caring and sits alongside other gender stereotyping then that's problematic. Are boys equally encouraged to develop their caring side with dolls? Probably not.
Equally, the toys children playwith influence their development so if boys are getting more opportunity to develop in some areas and girls aren't then we're also starting to socialise and train them into being more different

I never understand how adults can't get their head around how socialisation works

I would never used the phrase boy toys but I think she should have minded her own business. Confusing for your son to have a stranger tell his mum off.

She was rude, but right.

It's sad to think people are still saying this kind of thing to their children.