People who have never experienced being in family court

[SavanahXx]

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

She can’t be on a supervision order then because it’s being on a supervision order that confers LAC status. If your child is on a supervision order, she has looked after status, if she doesn’t she’s not - there isn’t a half way house.

@jellycatspyjamas the purple writing is explaining what a care order is. I told you... It must be different were you are. Aren't you in Scotland?

I was coming back to say just that, I had a look and yes, it’s different in England. I didn’t realise children weren’t considered “looked after” at home, which is what happens in Scotland if a child is on a supervision order without a condition of residence. Here everything is done under a supervision order, including taking a child into care, which is where my confusion arose.

Apologies, I completely forgot you’re under a different legal system.

@jellycatspyjamas don't worry about it. I realised everything was different over there when you explained the court process over there too. The court process is massively different here too.

Easy mistake to make, different places have different procedures:)

Supervision Order in England and Wales

Thank you, I really should have checked sooner though rather than arguing with you. I knew the court processes were different but didn’t realise supervision orders were entirely opposite in England. God forbid if you ever find yourself in the process in Scotland, you’ll know how it works

It's a way of concluding the proceedings early. So if the la and the parents and guardian agrees, so does judge because it finish things. Again. The judge said we didnt need it. But for it to go to final hearing, we'd be waiting nearly 3 months. When we came out. Both mine and OHs solicitor said if we had just gone to final hearing. There would of been no order. But that would of made no sence. Because DD would of still been on a interim care order and we would of still been in the foster placement now. The judge had no power to disagree if we was all already in agreement.

Honestly five years of watching me in front line social work and fifteen more in close proximity by nearest and dearest don't need to be shown this thread.
They understand it is a highly pressured job, with harsh penalties when things go wrong. They don't imagine every person doing this job will be good at it or even there for the right reasons. But they understand the majority are doing the best they can with a chronically underfunded system.
They don't expect perfection anymore than they do of any other professional.
They understand that there is an impact for the families involved and the workers. That everyone wants what is best even if they don't always agree what that looks like.

That all makes sense to me now - it’s literally the opposite here, a supervision order is a compulsory process and we don’t have care orders as such.

So, ignore me when it comes to English CP legislation - I did used to know it well but I clearly need to brush up a bit!

@jellycatspyjamas it sounds a hell of alot more complicated over there mind you it's so different in every case. No one case is the same. Would be easier if they was at least really similar 😂

I think the fact remains that a barrister with extensive experience says that the op’s version is extremely unlikely.

Was she a barrister for the SS?
As long as everyone is in agreements at the IRH then the judge ends care proceedings. There's no point dragging it on if everyone's already reached an agreement. That wastes time and money :s I definitely know what happened! Bloody hell 🙄

Nickynacky has it. I have posted the relevant meaning of Supervision Order in England and Wales. See above ^^

You would have to ask her, I don’t know her work history.

I guess nobody listens and everyone must be a liar 😂😂
Just like no one ever lies when they have a super important job. Ok then 😉

The judge said the supervision order wasn't necessary. I said I would prefer to do it, so that when it comes to having another child.

Oh, right. Because it looks great having a supervision order on your record as opposed to no order. I guess the rest of us who don't have those orders should start worrying.

The judge thought it was ridiculous, but again, he can't say no it's not needed case dismissed.

Of course he can. He has to make findings on the basis of the evidence alone.

Haven't rtft but am I seeing things, "failed parent" from social workers? Good luck op you need it in this crazy world

I don't think a supervision order reflects badly on Op as her child was previously LAC then returned solely to her care with a supervision order which gives professionals oversight on the return, which sounds like it's been largely positive. Under the supervision order is your baby classed as a child in need or child protection ?

A supervision order can only be ordered if the child is suffering or likely to suffer significant harm effectively as a result of problems with parenting. It's not a finding that most people would volunteer for.

Bloody hell. If the judge wouldn't of agreed it would of had to go to final hearing. Meaning DD would of had an interim care order for a further nearly 3 month. And would of still been in the foster placement. The judge can't go against SS or the parents and make his own decision until the final hearing once everyone has presented their own evidence. But we had all agreed prior to going into court. So the judge ended proceedings early. The only thing that was on the threshold was that I didnt accept a family nurse for under 21's (they teach you how to parent etc) because I genuinely didn't need it. Of it went to dial hearing. There would of been no supervision order because that's a stupid thing to put on a threshold and would of been taken off once I gave my evidence. But we all agreed, meaning it stayed on the threshold. Meaning the judge agreed :) again, the solicitors said if we had just taken it to final hearing, there would of been no order. But I definitely didn't want to keep DD in a placement.

Id like to say thank you to all you people who have shared your experiences, good or bad 🙌🙌

Op if the judge felt there were no issues they would have ended it on no order.

A supervision order can only be made if the threshold of actual or likely significant harm is met, the same threshold as a care order. The difference in how they are used is that the SO is made if the judge feels satisfied things are improving enough that the long term plan will be for the child to remain with the parent.
If the threshold isn't meet re risk, the judge can't make the order.

Re Spero, barristers are effectively independent, they don't work for SS or parents or guardians; they are instructed to work for any of those, hence they see all sides.

I've just caught up on this thread and it delivers - aunt ethels campaign boils down to an education decision to move a child. A social worker can only move a childs sen school if it's approved by education, and it's education who wanted the change of placement. It's education who have the responsibility to provide the setting.
It's akin to having a bad experience with your GP and starting a twenty year hate campaign against dentists.

The thing on the threshold was that I declined a family nurse which meant I was "placing my daughter at future risk of emotional harm" which was bollocks. If I had of taken it to the final hearing. It could of disputed it and would of ended up with no order. I didn't want to dispute anything because 1) I wanted proceeding finished early 2) I wanted to agree with a supervision order. Why is no one following? The judge must of clearly thought there 'evidence' was silly but there was no way on this earth I was going to battle it. Meaning my daughter would of still been a LAC nearly 3 months later. Now that im getting these shitty comments like im a liar. I wish id of just took it to final hearing. To prove a point. But I made a clever decision:) sorry if no one can understand this or believe it. But again. I was there. I also have the paperwork. I know what was said.

Ive never had a judge argue with a request for a supervision order as long as everyone agrees, although they could if they wanted to but i dont see why they would, always handy to have an eye on things for a little while if possible.

Im not going sit and argue over 40 pages of points, as i dont have the time or energy. What i will say is, its a shame your experience was poor, but im pleased that you have had a positive outcome, thats all i would want if i was your childs social worker.

Thank-you for verifying my point 👌 I got really sick of arguing with people 🙄 if I would of taken it to a final hearing, it would of ended on a no order. But I didnt see how being in a placement for a further nearly 3 months and possible future involvement would benefit. I wanted to raise awareness about how some social workers lie. And never admit when they have. I haven't said all do. I hope that this threat has helped some people. And again. Thank-you to those of you who have shared your experiences, good luck to you all. I wish you all the best 😊😊😊