People who have never experienced being in family court

[SavanahXx]

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

I’m not naive OP. I’ve almost certainly been part of more child protection conferences than you.

You’re scare mongering.

I think it’s always worth reading the reports very carefully. Sometimes things are written in a badly worded manner.

My DIL has a child from a previous partner who was on a child protection plan. She moved into our home with SS approval from a mother and baby placement when she became serious with my son and I scoured her records.

I became part of the core group and it was quickly apparent that not all social workers are particularly good note takers lol. They can be fantastic social workers but lacking in effective writing skills

A year later my gorgeous grandson was downgraded to a child in need plan and now to a family support system. His new little sister has never been on a plan at all.

The SS are massively overworked, the caseloads are inhumane and errors are made through inaccurate record keeping, a fast turnover of staff, and simply pure exhaustion at times.

They need to brush up on their court report wordings then.
Until you have seen a case in which removal was easy, please don't say it is. I've seen first hand with people I know that removal is easy. I've seen court papers that have been lies. That have been manipulated.

Why should that child and that parent be put through emotional harm and stress because a social worker has failed at their job?

Also, alot of social workers scare parents into doing what they want so they don't go to court.

And alot act higher than the judge by not adhering to court orders etc. That is not their job.

I know that removal is easy

It isn’t. You may not agree with the reasons. You may not be aware of the process. It may even not have been carried out perfectly.

But please stop saying it is easy, as though a SW can just breeze up and remove. Talking like that stops people accessing support. It’s hugely irresponsible.

They word reports and allegations in a way that isn't at all the actual situation. Leading to removal. I HAVE SEEN THIS FIRST HAND.

The cases I know of are not quite what OP is describing. Admittedly. Not family court. Not final removal.

I personally know of 5 cases of children being removed temporarily. A concern or risk. Understandable and no complaint about why SS had to legitimately investigate. But it was 'how' the case was handled!

Each time 2 or 3 children were temporarily placed with family, friends, or close, or someone else, whilst investigating.

But each time it was disastrous. One time one girl made a comment at nursery that turned out to be just not true. But the case just dragged on unnecessarily, because of SS failings.

, Other times, at least in 2 cases, there were such short staffing and a lack of skilled staff to interview that it was over a month before the very young children were even interviewed.

Other times there was just presumption, assumptions, lieing, deliberately not including GP's/consultants/ school reports, because it contradicted SS's aim of implying poor parenting/neglect.

I've seen it, the documents and evidence, because I was asked it support other families, after my experience.

This meant that I'm all 5 cases, the children were delayed from returning home, for weeks longer than was necessary, some times for months. The worst one I saw was over 6 months! sometimes having not been allowed to see their parents at all, or only partly, or not for a long time, due to other mistakes and errors.

and overall the cases were disgraceful. Bad errors made.

Damage was done to the children. And the family. Unnecessarily so. And the children are left anxious with seperation anxiety.

So. SS mistakes, misconduct, un-professionalism does occur. Rare. Compared to how many cases they do deal with. But it does happen.

I'm sure most of you can believe this.

In my line of work I see it from the other side where SS are are often reluctant to step in and give chance after chance and usually leaving it until the damage is done!

Off the top off my head I know 7 social
workers who work within children’s services- including child protection. I done almost 3 years of a social work degree before I had to pull out for health reasons. I’ve also worked alongside social workers for years, in a children’s team.

Personally, off the top of my head I know 1 child that was removed from his mother- she did not physically abuse nor psychologically. However she neglected him, and the POTENTIAL to cause harm to this baby was huge. She is now older, has another child, and so far is doing well. With social services keeping an eye on her.

More often or not, the people shouting about ‘ALL the people they know’, and how bad ‘ALL the social workers are’, are those ones who have little understanding of how damage can be done to children. It’s not just about it hitting them, starving them etc. There is so much more that goes into bringing up a child in a ‘SAFE and SECURE’ environment. If people can’t understand that, I would seriously judge their capabilities as parents.

I HAVE SEEN THIS FIRST HAND

I have seen first hand the good SS actually does.

People can only to off personal experience I agree however we had social services involvement due to a malicious allegation ,the social worker was very professional imo,she checked both school records ,my children went too two separate primary schools because my youngest goes to a special school ( due to his disabilities) and asked wether either school.had any concerns ,they didn't and were very positive she spoke to my oldest son on his own he was 8 at the time (she couldn't speak to my youngest as he's non verbal) but had to rely on what his school.was saying and did basic checks on the home as we had only just moved in( two weeks previously there's was no flooring )and the house wasent decorated ( housing association) and closed the case .

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/social-workers-attempted-cover-up-in-bid-to-keep-five-children-in-foster-care-a6745671.html%3famp

Well I hope someone investiges about those two poor poor little girls who were simpley murdered by their mother who was sentenced today.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-49204293

I’ve beard of both good and bad SWs. Stands to reason like good and bad MPs or PMs..anything really.

I do think recent high profile failures resulting in child deaths has made SS more apt to take the kids first and ask questions later. Especially if a parent has ever been detained under the Mental Health Act. Sort of a precautionary principle.

But the pendulum is likely to swing the other way now that there’s been the scandal of unsafe children’s homes & them being closed down.

It’s a very difficult job and I don’t think SWs get enough support insofar as burnout and dealing with the traumatic things they see.

There certainly are some social workers who are overzealous and self-righteous (the absolute clusterfuck in Cleveland 30 years ago shows this) - but there are also some who are lazy and incompetent (as shown by the cases of Victoria Climbe and Daniel Pelka). No profession is free from idiots or bullies. And there have been some issues over the years of very abusive men being able to charm the family court into believing that their ex-wives are crazy bitches telling lies, so the abusive man can gain access to the DC and harm them.
Mostly, though, social workers are underpaid, overworked and trying hard to do their best.

It’s not easy to remove a child. ITS NOT EASY TO REMOVE A CHILD.

Risk of emotional harm can be a number of things. It could be children witnessing severe domestic violence. Or it could be radicalisation of children. Or it could be a parent belittling and bullying a child with words. Do you think any of those things are defensible?

The only thing more predictable than a teacher bashing thread is a social worker bashing thread.

You’re absolutely right OP, we’re untrained, unprofessional, wholly out to break up families and give parents a hard time. It’s not like we have fairly complex legislation and ethical codes to balance in our work, our service users are always scrupulously honest, welcoming of support and open to change. And we never have to consider that making the wrong decision on any one of our complex cases could reasonably end in the death of a child.

Yep, we’re all out to get you.

Feel better?

Have I said all? No i don't think so. Alot lie, manipulate and can never accept they was wrong, so they carry it on.

These are the social workers that are causing more harm than good. Why should they get to put a whole family through so much emotional harm.

Some focus on the young families who have a safe loving environment while missing and overlooking the people like the woman who killed her two children. If the social workers who lie and manipulate, taking children unlawfully off their families focused on the ones who really need it, maybe there wouldn't be these tragic stories.

Instead of trying to save face, they should be able to admit when they got something wrong. Then they can move on to the next family.

If the social workers who lie and manipulate, taking children unlawfully off their families focused on the ones who really need it, maybe there wouldn't be these tragic stories

And that folks is social services BINGO! Not only are social workers the worst, taking children away from innocent families, but they’re also useless and don’t protect children well enough.

Having your family looked into by SS is intrusive and painful. But just because they end up giving you the all clear, doesn’t mean they were wrong to check you out in the first place.

Imagine if we applied that principle to airport security? It’s not wrong to direct some people aside for extra searches and questioning even if they turn out to be perfectly innocent.

The point is to follow up on red flags to be sure you are not missing children that do need help. Abusive parents are very very good at hiding behind a facade.

I get that it can be hard to admit you was wrong for some people. But in that line of work. You NEED to be able to admit your mistakes. Otherwise while your busy trying to save face, their is a child in genuine need and who actually is being neglected.

A lot? Well that’s a number you can evidence.

A lot are doing the best job they know how with minimal support. A lot are making life and death decisions amidst families who lie, mislead, threat and intimidate. A lot do a hell of a lot of good, literally saving lives against all odds. A lot have 10+ years professionals training to support and protect the most vulnerable people in society with few resources available.

It’s incredibly hard to remove children from their parents, there needs to be a degree of evidence that the child is at risk of significant harm and you need to be able to evidence that the harm of being removed is less than the harm of being left in an unsafe home, ie that removal is the least harmful option.

Once you’ve got some training in child development, trauma, attachment, therapeutic support, neuroscience, child protection law and practice, substance misuse, the effects of neglect/domestic abuse/sexual abuse on children, child and adolescent mental health and health and bloody safety I’ll listen to your views about what’s better for children and the legal process for assessment, intervention and removal. Until then, I’ll go with my 10 years of university education and 30 years of child protection experience if you don’t mind.

It is silly to shout that it isn’t easy to remove a child.

It is easy to present information in such a way as for it to appear as if removal is in the child’s best interests, especially if the adults you are dealing with are poorly educated as is often the case.

Maybe in a lot of cases it’s justified.

It’s still quite straightforward to do.

I have seen a lot of stupidity from SW. Stuff that a person with average to low intelligence could see through. They could not see where they went wrong and really get difficult when their mistakes are pointed out.

I am not going to give any highly indentifying incidents but here are two examples of how silly they can be.

1. I got a call about 3 a.m. that there was a problem with someone else. They wanted me to go to the location about 30 miles away. I said I could not go until I got a babysitter as I was alone in the house with an underage child. They could not get it that I would have a child or that I would need to make arrangements for that child. Imagine the scene SW demanded my presence so I left a child home alone !!!

1. SW had moved from the issue at hand as we were waiting for another organisation to deal with the problem. Chatting generally and talk came to a journey I had taken. I said fastest I ever did that trip was X hours and I had wedding present of china in the boot. She then said why were the children in the boot of the car ???

To be clear I did not leave a child alone in the house. The children have never been in the boot of my car (s)

They did a whole heap of far more serious things. If they cant get the simple stuff right how can they deal with life changing incidents?