...to think she shouldn't be leaving her kids?

[Biiscuits]

I have a friend, who has a boy and a girl aged 9 and 12. The girl has learning difficulties.

She's a single mum, no dad, and works full time- proper full time- out the house 8-6. She's leaving the kids home alone these holidays every day.

I think they're far too young and not remotely sensible enough.

AIBU?

My son has severe autism and learning disabilities and he does actually attend a holiday club specifically for children with complex disabilities however it's not supposed to be for childcare we had to go through an assessment with the disability team it's supposed to be for socialisation, and respite he only gets one day a week though per school holiday.

In short; no.

I have children the same age.

I leave the 12 year old alone every day, but only half a day (I'm lucky enough to have a flexible job and my boss is ok with me doing this in school holidays)
I don't feel comfortable leaving him alone all day, but he'd be fine. Just bored.

I won't leave the 9 year old alone. He goes to clubs. Nor will I leave them together, because I don't trust the 12 year old to be kind to his brother. Nor is it his responsibility to look out for him.

Lots of holiday childcare especially the affordable type is 9-3 or 10-2.
If she needs 8-6 there may be nothing available or very expensive.
Childcare for 12 years olds isn't usually available most stops at 11. My daughter is 13 and I'm only part time so leave her but I'm out 4.5 hours maximum. I wouldn't want to leave her 7-7 day in day out which would be my time out of house if I worked full time in nearby city. But there is no childcare near me for 11/12 year olds at secondary in holidays for long hours.

THIS! The UK is way behind when it comes to childcare, still operating under the outdated notion that everyone has someone on hand to provide it.

And that this poor woman would be forced out of work and thrown onto UC to suffer with her children for having a child who is disabled.

It's utterly shit.

I have a 14,10 & 9 year old. My eldest looks after the other 2 when both my husband and I have to work. Do I feel confident in my children being left? Yes. Do I know my son is capable of looking after his sister? Yes. Do I like having to do it? No. But I don't have a choice, we can not afford to pay for clubs, rent, food, bills etc yet we can't afford not to work. We have some family who help when they can but that's not much. My son has been doing this since he was about 12. Maybe some of you who are up in arms about this will say if we can't afford to pay for childcare we shouldn't have had them. But when we are working, my children follow strict rules, have contact numbers for whoever and everyone they may need and food that doesn't need cooking is always available.
Some people just don't have any choice, others shouldn't judge.
Oh and yes primary schools will let kids go with under 16's, my son picks his sisters up from school as and when needed and has done since end Yr 7

@Cosentyx

Wow, instead of judging and sneering at a lone parent who works and may not be able to afford childcare or a fucking Summer camp why not seek out ways to help her?

You are everything that is wrong with Mumsnet.

I didn't judge nor sneer. And why is it a 'fucking summer camp'?!

I'd love to hear your magic solution about how I can help her. When I've already said I work full time too (also single parent). Please, do share.

@LegionOfDoom. Calm down, if you’d bothered to read the rest of my post, I went on to say exactly what you just said; that most of us would prefer children not to have to be self reliant....

...Regardless of competency, I’m sure most of us would prefer our children to be involved in something more stimulating and carefree than babysitting one another during the holidays, where possible

However, it doesn’t take away from the fact that children are becoming more and more deskilled due to us thinking they shouldn’t be trusted or allowed to do things independently.

I saw a good statistic recently about how 150 years ago, the average (female) 4 year old child could knit a pair of socks....now the average four year old can’t even tie their shoelaces...

Sorry not to have been clearer.

Boy aged 9 (literally a few days ago), Girl aged 12 with LD. She is in a specialist base in her school and talks and acts much younger than her age. It is relevant here, otherwise I wouldn't have said it!

Last summer (and Easter) her son came to summer camp with mine, not sure where her daughter went.

I don't know how to say this bit without sounding judgey, but she does have a good job and I know she gets a lot of maintenance from her ex (who lives abroad). He doesn't see the kids but he pays her mortgage, she also has a lovely house, lovely car, nails and hair done all the time etc. I really don't think this is a matter of money but ALSO I am well aware I don't know the inns and outs of someones situation, so who knows?

I've read the whole thread, thank you everyone who has replied. Ultimately, I do still feel super uncomfortable about it. I don't know what to do- lots of posters saying to keep my nose out- but what if something happened to either child?

(As an aside I also think it must be incredibly boring for them).

To those who've asked what I'm going to do- I'm going to speak to her directly and say how worried I am. We've arranged a cuppa for Sunday.

I'm everything that's wrong with Mumsnet but YOU are the one who started a thread on this, a huge forum, in AIBU, with an OP that was NOT a plea for advice on how to support this woman. Okay.

Real helpful there, OP.

No, she was asking if people think it’s unreasonable or reasonable..... which is exactly the point of AIBU. Lots of people don’t believe it’s appropriate ( me included) - particularly given the eldest has LD. There were lots of assumptions about the poor woman not being able to afford “ fucking summer camp” with no evidence that that was the case at all. Seems likely that she potentially could based on the last update. Lots of people with not much money manage to arrange childcare with friends, family ( fathers) whatever because 1) they’re not neglectful parents 2) they make plans.

Lots of people with not much money manage to arrange childcare with friends, family ( fathers) whatever because 1) they’re not neglectful parents 2) they make plans.

And lots of people don't have that support to be able to plan, and honestly, how helpful is it to start such a thread in AIBU if you're trying to be supportive to this person? How would you feel if you found out your so-called friend had started a thread like this on a huge board like MN rather than having the decency to come to your face and expressing concerns to your directly, because believe me, threads are removed here all the time for being potentially outing or the subject in question being doxxed?

It's not OPs Job to find ways to support this woman's children.

No, it isn't, but is it really one's job to start threads like this about someone else in AIBU that have lead to this mother being smeared as all kinds of negative things and then come back and tell people off because, actually, you were just 'concerned' about her and the kids? Really?

No, but if she has concerns she has a duty to do something about them.

Lots of people with not much money manage to arrange childcare with friends, family ( fathers) whatever because 1) they’re not neglectful parents 2) they make plans.

That would be fine if people have supportive families/friends, fathers played a role in their children’s lives and if childcare provisions are available within the home/work area.

Not to mention cost of childcare (private or childcare setting).

Working families are going without food and heating/electric, never mind paying other essential bills.

The average food bank (single) during the summer holidays is supplying more than 5000kilos of food a week at a cost of £8000 per week! in my area in the NE

If parents don’t work as to look after their children they face homelessness as the average wait for universal credit in my area is 7-8 weeks, for the first payment, and that’s if they get it as they are deemed to have been made unemployed intentionally.

Welcome to the UK!!!

Why are people comparing this 12 year old with their own - this one has learning disabilities ( to what extent we don’t know). You’re essentially talking about a cognitive impairment of some description. We also don’t know that she can’t afford care and has no one to help.... people need to stop projecting.

My 12 year old dd2 looks after my 9 year old dd3 every Fri until half one in the hols. I have no other choice. I'm a single parent. Hol club is only on 4 days a week and it's not even on the last 2 week's either and it's crippling me. I have no family help and very little money. Minimum wage full time. It's shit. I'm.having to take unpaid parental leave for the last 2 weeks and I'll.only have enough wage to cover my rent and council tax in September. Tax credits are a pittance.

Some of us don't have much choice. But both of mine are quite sensible but I worry so much about leaving them

OP if the facts are as you say then I don't understand why you haven't already reported her instead of posting here.

ghostmouse and all the other mothers struggling to make ends meet, I am so angry how this country is turning.

Society has to decide whether to assist parents to work by providing affordable childcare, or stop forcing them to work when there isn't any affordable childcare by supporting them

This is the bottom line. You can’t have it both ways. Particularly for those on low wages and/or 0 hour contracts.

Children should not be providing extensive childcare for younger children

For the most part, I agree. But I a, also a single parent and unfortunately, keeping the wolves fro pm the door is a priority. Holiday care isn’t cheap. Sometimes parents make decisions that perhaps they shouldn’t or wouldn’t if they felt there was any other option. Count yourself lucky if you do ‘t need to make such decisions and don’t judge those who do.

We are going to try leaving my 10 and 11 (almost 12 y at olds) for two weeks over the holidays. It will be full days but I work 7 mins from home and have somewhat flexible working. When we are in we don't see them for hours and hours on end so I don't see too much difference.

It sickens me, reading about good, caring parents with no other option but to leave children in order to be able to get by.

@pikapikachu my dc primary release any age child including reception to high school aged siblings so 11+ is very common in other local schools . One high school even finishes 15 minutes before the feeder primary school specifically to allow for this.

If shes entitled to universal credit she could put them in an Ofsted registered holiday camp and claim back a portion of the costs

I think universal credit requires parents to pay up front though. I started summer hols with £400ish of childcare on my credit card. Not everyone can do that.