AIBU to be unable to think of a way in which Jeremy Corbyn could be doing worse

[Cinammoncake]

Where even is he - down the allotment?

Boris is better than Corbyn. He’ll, anyone is better than Corbyn. He makes me shudder.

No Baggy: the Tories have a majority of 3, a deposed PM who suffered an almost complete collapse of her government and a new buffoon who cannot deliver his promises. And there’s the impact of austerity in our schools, the NHS situation in our schools. If Corbyn can’t make inroads in that context, he needs to resign.

Hell, anyone

The Tories don't have a majority. They rely on the DUP for a working majority. And that's in grave danger of being obliterated.

The Labour Party need to realise that they've put themselves in this position.

Dismissing comments as ad hominem refers to debating points though.

I would contend that persona, character and past behaviour does (and should) influence our choices when it comes to entrusting someone with power.

Otherwise leadership doesn't matter and the Labour party / Momentum could innovate by banning the very notion of leader and run everything by NEC with rotating Chair.

I'm sure its already been tried by comrades somewhere.

All of this Corbyn hatred but I'm not seeing any specific examples.

Cinnamon, which policies do you class as hard left?

Things like proposing making people pay a tax on the value of their home. Fixation with abolishing private schools. Suggesting compulsory purchase of unoccupied property in London.

They seem like they want to push a communist agenda and have gone too far left imo. Very negative seeming.

I think there are truly great labour MPs like Jess Philips who care about poverty and hardship because they care about people, not because they're peddling an ideology

Corbyn not so much. And that's not even touching on his issues with antisemitism and dodgy attitudes to women

If that's the case, why can Labour spokespeople never explain them?

Yes, I totally agree with this. And “Go and read the manifesto” isn’t really going to work for the twitter generation, is it?

BJ v Corbyn in parliament today.
Corbyn asked plenty of sensible questions. BJ blustered his way through the 'answers' and said very little of any worth.

But Johnson is still the pm.

They rely on the DUP for a working majority. And that's in grave danger of being obliterated.

Agree.

With this Tory party in power they basically have an open goal. Yet they're going down in the polls and have been crap. Would I trust them to run the railways well (after great expense, given how much it would cost to buy back, and a big hassle too) No. I mean really, who would think they can do this. Or do anything effectively.

White Dust I agree actually. But then I just don't get the Boris appeal.

Jeremy Corbyn has to go. Then Her Majesty's opposition might get somewhere!

The Libdems will never go into coalition with a Brexit party. They prevented the Tories from having a referendum during the Coalition. As far as they're concerned, Labour has a Brexit leadership - and they're dead right on that. So no coalition with Labour under Corbyn, which is what they've said.

2017 was a 2 horse race. The LibDems and UKIP were at their lowest ebbs.That's why both Labour and the Tories got a record popular vote. It doesn't mean anything special. It only looked as if Corbyn did well because he started from the lowest of expectations. And we still didn't win because he is never going to appeal to the moderate floating voter.
And they've wasted the last 2 years, putting all their efforts into embedding themselves into the Party machinery - the CLPs and Southside, instead of the job they're paid for.

Things are v different now. 4 parties jostling for position. The Sky poll said that half the nation doesn't trust Johnson, but they'd still rather have him as PM than Corbyn. If Johnson and Farage do a sneaky back-room deal where the Tories take a back-seat in Leave-voting Labour strongholds, we're stuffed.

That's what 3 years of Corbynism has done to Labour.

I’ve largely given up listening to PMQs because of the inevitable crashing disappointment that is Jeremy Corbyn, but even by those standards only a die-hard Corbyn fan would think he did well today. Boris was largely hot air, but a lot of people will have liked that kind of bombastic, patriotic “fight ‘em on the beaches” stuff. Corbyn in comparison sounded like he was reading a laundry list. It needed passion and energy and wit, and apparently he has none of the above.

Theresa May had more wit than Jeremy and that's saying something!
His never been good at the whole positive / off the cuff approach. We're all different , but today's politicians need the X factor. Say what you will about Tony Blair but he had that side of it nailed in the early days and Boris has his own persona thing that appeals to ( some) people.
Smoke and mirrors : proper politics went out of fashion long ago.

The80s It’s really interesting to watch Tony Blair’s early commons appearances. He really did have a certain special really attractive something.

Labour can't get rid of him! don't you think they want to?

I'm honestly not sure about this. Given that the majority of party members keep voting for him - even though he lost the vote of confidence by his own MPs by a massive margin - I suppose it depends what you perceive "Labour" to be

It was once the proverbial "broad church" and all the better for it, but now moderates are being deselected if they dare to express dissent, those who represent traditional supporters get fewer all the time

As a PP suggested, we need a sane and electable opposition to put a brake on the Tories' worst excesses and offer a realistic alternative government - and we just don't have one

NoBaggyPants

I have read the manifesto, thank you, and with all due respect I don't need the advice of an random person on the internet to filter it through their own bias - or are you an official party representative with the authority to discuss it? What I have said is that actual MPs are unable to explain Labour policy and if they do, there is inevitably a different message to what they said released soon afterward. Perhaps you had better try to clarify the manifesto with them, eh, you being such an expert.

Does anyone understand where Labour now stands on Brexit? As far as I can tell they’re now pro-2nd referendum and would campaign for Remain in said 2nd referendum, but if there was a General Election they’d campaign for Leave, but only on the basis that they’d negotiate a better deal?

Or something?

Jess Phillips and Keir starker and many others yes! Not sure about tom watson? Corbyn, McDonald, Len mcclusky ( might as well count him in!) Abbott, butler and the shrill blonde woman with the big glasses no way. I want a fairer society not bloody Venezuela.

Starmer

Jilly, I believed in Tony Blair. He had charm and a soft voice and a mega watt smile. You were propelled along on a wave of positivity.
Shame it all went to poo but the early days were good.
Brown was more in the Theresa May mould.
Much cleverer than Tony but no charisma at all. It's hard to put your finger on the X factor.

Politics is all about the image.
Get the right personality and looks and spin on the words and your half way there.
Just the rest to do then!