AIBU to be unable to think of a way in which Jeremy Corbyn could be doing worse

[Cinammoncake]

Where even is he - down the allotment?

Unfortunately Labour have to let him fight the next GE. However this is mucb more likely to end in a lib/lab coalition which would be good

Unfortunately Labour have to let him fight the next GE

why do they have to though?

Because he won two leadership elections.

Interesting to see the pro Corbyn posters can only counter arguments against him with whataboutery.

I was a lifelong Labour voter and activist, joined when Foot became leader, utterly depressed by Johnson and cabinet btw.

I haven't used any whatabouterry, just facts.

Also that term is the most over used term in political debate on MN.

He will go down as the worst opposition leader in the time of the most awful government in history

Yup.

Overused means it can't be used again, does it?

Facts they may be but they're just about Johnson. We know he's appalling but this is a thread about Corbyn.

For me it's the perpetual whining. They never respond by saying "this is our policy on xyz and this is why we think it's good". It's always "look how meanie nasty horrid the tories are whine whine".

I was on a tread elsewhere about my local politics. I agreed that the (blue till forever) ruling party were not doing right by the local electorate, but that there was no credible opposition (of any colour) to vote for instead.

I immediately got pounced on with "SO YOU THINK THE NASTY TORIES ARE GREAT THEN?" Yeah, cos that is exactly what I said.

Give people positive reasons to vote for, don't just whine about the other ide.

Except i see it the otger way round.

No one ever debates Labour policy, they just sling mud at all times.

But that's just whataboutery using other words.

Not at all, the constant use of that term here is to make all conversations purely on ypur terms, when u can't make comparisons or criticisms or suggest that the constant personal attacks rather addressing policy are flawed, then it means that you are attempting only to allow the discussion on your terms.

The constant mud slinging against Corbyn is merely ad hominem fallacy defined

@Britwifeinusa, that's by no means the worst one can say about BJ. We have libel laws that prevent the worst being published on MN. Google away and see what you find about our new PM.

No one ever debates Labour policy, they just sling mud at all times.

They're not getting their policies over well enough
They seem incompetent
They're focusing too much on hard left ideologies and backward moves like compulsory purchase of the railways. They don't seem forward thinking

They never respond by saying "this is our policy on xyz and this is why we think it's good"

Never heard of the manifesto? The policies are all there.

I wonder if you're actually listening yourself, or happy to rely on biased media reporting.

Cinnamon, which policies do you class as hard left?

As for nationalising the railways, there's nothing backward about that. Most of Europe's rail networks are publicly owned, and they're cheaper and more efficient than ours.

"compulsory purchase of the railways", except the railways are nationally owned, the TOc
Cs are franchises and the manifrsto said that they would simply wait for the franchises to expire and take them back into national control, like East Coast mainline is. This woukd be zero cost to the tax payer.

Most of the rest of the world has nationalised rail, some of those operators own our TOCs.

*Been on the news vocalising his opposition to what's happening?

He was on last night and this lunchtime. He's holding a rally in Westminster Square tonight on that very subject.

Proposed a vote of no confidence?

Won't work. The Tories will always put party before country, so the vote would be lost.

Realistically there's sod all the opposition can do until Tory MPs vote for the good of the country and not their party.

They're not getting their policies over well enough

More importantly they are not polling well enough. Not just in opinion polls. But in actual elections. In terms of what happened since the general election was a lifetime ago. The Labour Party did better than (May) expected but that doesn't actually make anything change wrt government policy. They are certainly not capitalising on their last g.e election result, which some Corbyn supporters seemed to think was a victory at the time. I've always said that Corbyn and his acolytes aren't interested in power. They are only interested in keeping the Labour Party name and turning it into a reflection of themselves. What's the point of that as a political party? Let alone the official opposition.

Never heard of the manifesto? The policies are all there.
I wonder if you're actually listening yourself, or happy to rely on biased media reporting

If that's the case, why can Labour spokespeople never explain them? Or, on the rare occasions someone is brave enough to take a position, why are they always quickly contradicted, often within hours?

Again whataboutery. The Labour Party and Corbyn supporters need start looking into why they aren't polling better if they are a serious party. It's strange when they seem to navel gaze the whole time that they still can't sort themselves out.

I'd genuinely like to know what people want the opposition to do, in the knowledge that the Tories have a majority. We all want change, but Labour can't make that happen in opposition.

And as for the LibDems, be in no doubt that they will cosy up to the Tories again to get power. And that means absolutely no hope of remaining. Look at Swinson's voting record if you're in any doubt.

I’m left of Corbyn and really wish I could support him. At this point I can’t see how anyone could, expect through blind loyalty and tribalism. I accept that the media and PLP have it in for him, and that Brexit is not straight forward. But he has to lead and he is no leader. How much evidence do people need that he is simply not up to the job?

They thought they could jettison him but now they are stuck with him. I can’t be bothered going into the whys and wherefores; I will simply say he is an appalling individual whose fault it is that we have, in effect, no Opposition in this country.

@Alltheprettyseahorses Which policy is it that you're not clear on? Have a read of the manifesto and I'll happily clarify if needed.

It's like people don't realise that at an election you vote for a party. Not against another one. And, if you are serious about your policies, and want to effect change, you need to appeal to a broad range of voters. It's not rocket science.