AIBU to ask for theories on difficult MILs?

[pussincahoots]

Sooo many threads about difficult MILs. And before anyone starts, I’m appreciative of the fact there are loads of difficult DILs out there too. But I’d like to focus on MILs here.

Most mothers of previous partners I’ve had have been lovely. We’ve not seen eye-to-eye on absolutely everything, but clearly respected each other. And I’ve had two absolute shockers. Both shared the same traits. Both wanted to make a competitor out of me. Both undermined me. And neither treated me with respect, despite the fact I did them. Tried my guts out with both until I had to accept there was not going to be any resolution.

As a result they created tension for everyone. Instead of gaining a daughter they ended up alienating me and driving their own sons they were trying to hang onto further away, as well as their grandchildren. And for what? Unless I’m missing something there is only loss and no gain to be had by doing this. It could be win-win, but instead everyone loses. I truly do not get it.

People post about their MILs here every day, and often I don’t see the big deal. I wish my MIL was as tame as some described. But I have to say the overwhelming majority of MILs described on MN seem to share the same characteristics as the two shockers I’ve experienced. Sadly it seems I’m not alone.

If all their behaviour achieves is loss and upset, why do they do it?

I think it's a control thing with my mil. She's very sleekit.
She would whisper nasty things as I passed her, then when I asked her what she said, deny it. All wide eyed and innocent. Thing is I never 'had a DH problem' he has always stuck up for be and took my side. I think in some way she got a kick out of getting a rise, from him especially, she used to say the most ridiculous things until he lost his temper them would sit smiling to herself.

I had a miscarriage that I needed surgery for.
I woke up to find her sitting staring at me. She leaned in and said that it was the best thing that could have happened because me and DH hardly knew each other. Then left.
She was shocked when DH phoned her to have a go at her, she just presumed I wouldn't tell him.

@Catherine1987 Que?

@nuggles I didn't actually make DH aware of my plan, just been quietly orchestrating things this way & thinking/planning ahead. They live close by so it's easy for me to set things up eg DH likes to go gym twice per week so I've suggested he drop DS off to MIL for the hour that he's at the gym so she can have her 1:1 time while I get jobs done around the house in peace...win-win 😊

@StreetwiseHercules your wife is a lucky woman!

@LadyRannaldini

You're daft to assume that all of our issues with our MIL's is because we favor our own Mothers.

I'd love for you to be in the room when my MIL is slating my appearance, making fun of my disabled and terminally ill father, referring to my DS as her own son, goading me by asking me if I'm sure I don't have PND because she "just assumed that I would get it", being gleeful about the fact that DH had skin to skin with our DS instead of me as I was having a seizure after my C section and so on....I'd be very interested in your feedback as to how that's got anything to do with my relationship with my own mother.

My MIL has in the past done some horrible stuff to me and DH. She is slightly better nowadays but still do things that are not nice. It doesn't help she has a degree in counselling so is probably aware of how she behaves.
The biggest thing that has improved things is the fact I have had a DD and since then I don't accept her crap as much. She is still a bitch and treats her daughter SIL completely differently to husband. I've said to DH that as soon as our DD see MIL as not a nice person/ sees the difference in treatments me and DD will be VLC or NC as it's bad enough that me and DH are subjected to her but I will protect my child. MIL is only just turned 50 so it's going to be a long battle.

My dh had utterly shit relationship with his dm and lots of men do. Esp in the over bearing problem Mil context we are talking about.

Men who have good relations with their mothers /parents will also have natural free flow of easy chat and therefore be able to say... Mum... That's too far, not nice, or please don't do that. And in turn the mum should be able to respond without sulks, tantrums or the ego being wounded.

Usually it's us dils who walk blind into situation where relationship can be crap and we try and bridge that gap

I'm not agaisnt mils at all.
I'd have welcomed someone just basically kind but being kind isn't a quality my Mil has or values.

I know there are many lovely mils out there.
. The huge problem is, when you get a bad one they can wreak u imaginable damage.

Marriage breakdown? Family ripped apart and so on.

Fudge brownie

Same here, its been a master class on what not to do. I can't imagine dh and I would ever has been as Vile as the in laws, as entitled plain nasty and demanding but even on the smaller issues and transgressions it's been a master class on what not to do.

My husband lived with his mum, dad and brother,he was 35 and had never had a serious relationship. He spent his nights at home with his mum and his weekends drinking and camping with his single (we think gay but not out) brother, if anyone needed money he lent it, he spent £100s on his nieces and nephews and spent time with them.

Then he met me. I got pregnant and he stopped doing the things he used to do and to them that's because I was controlling and wouldn't allowing him to when actually he just grew up.

I've never been forgiven and only one of his 6 brothers (the one he lived with)still talks to his and mil puts up with me because I am 'in charge' of her grandchildren

@paradiselaundry

Same as mine. No light hearted chat at all. Not even on her subjects I've tried them all. Like yours everything is comment on the way we live, everything is trying to lecture us.

There is nothing to chat about with her but, she can do chat with everyone else I've heard her.

This is the thing some people can't. But she does have the skills to be nice to other people.

I'd never expected more than that really what more do dils expect or want than be able to have cordial relations?

What more is there to have really!

My Mil blames me for the the fact that we live in a different area and so DH didn't get to see his daughter every weekend. She failed to comprehend that he worked away from home all week too. Think working in London, living in Lincolnshire and daughter in Northumberland. He just didn't want to do all that driving every weekend. His choice but she blamed me

@streetwisehercules

Excellent post. You've hit big nail on head there with the seeking to control adult children and seeing children as extension of themselves rather than separate people.

Very true of dh parents I've never known anything like it.

It's been so over bearing

I think even in 21st century it’s usually the woman in a marriage that creates the domestic home. A new marriage, especially when babies come along is creating a new community and unique way of being in the world. Habits, values, traditions, priorities, aesthetics, etc, is unique to each marriage/family.

The friction common between DILs and MILs seems to stem from expectations of what that new family/community/home is going to be like and how it is going to function. Some families of origin are very “enmeshed” they do everything together, are constantly checking in by phone and popping round. In others the members are very independent and see each other rarely and hardly call or text. Most others are something in between.

When clashes come between the expectations and assumptions about how the new family will interact with the family of origin, it often seems that the women feel it most emotionally as they are more emotionally invested and also are more easily offended and hurt by misunderstandings because it is their own personal choices, values and personal way of being that feels under attack. So I do think that friction is more likely between the women as those assumptions are usually unspoken.

If the spouse can make clear they love their family of origin still but they have a new marriage/family now and put boundaries in place, then things can usually muddle through ok.

It’s often when the spouse is conflicted in their loyalties and in unable to put in boundaries that troubles can start and can fester.

So whatever the personalities involved, both spouses in the new marriage must be able to put in boundaries and be loyal to the new marriage first. It can be a “she said vs. she said” but a major factor is the DP. Women can be blamed for what is actually an issue between two family systems. Everyone has their part to play.

Mine never liked me and made that perfectly clear from day one. When we moved in together I regularly got Sil in my ear about coming round more often even then I was saying his an adult I cannot force him to do something he doesn’t want to just as I couldn’t stop him doing something he wanted but no apparently I was gate keeper.

Mil was less than impressed when we got engaged and showed her disappointment at our pregnancy news as well.

Only recently did I have mil in my ear over sils bf’s birthday. I hadn’t done anything for it or frankly remembered, my dh had mentioned something to me on the day and I presumed that meant he had sorted something he hadn’t. My fault from the look on mils face.

The only reason he was so engaged into their family daily life was because he still lived at home and was single, once he started a relationship home was for showers and sleep that then started to dwindle as he stayed over more and more until we moved in together.

We currently live a 5 minute drive away he could pop over whenever he wants too, but he doesn’t. Then we get the Passive I hope you are all well texts. Even though we see her twice a week as standard.

I’m leaving it all upto him. I deal with my family without making it his issue and he is responsible for his family.

Following from what I just said and I’m sure has already been mentioned, problems come when an adult has grown up with such an overbearing parent (not always mother but we are talking about MILs) that they struggle mightily with separating and putting in boundaries.

In enmeshed families independence is just not allowed, it is seen as a rejection of the family. Mothers (and fathers) who are enmeshed with their children will use whatever means at their disposal to prevent independence and encourage dependence. So they will emotionally manipulate, emotionally blackmail, use fear, obligation and guilt-trips (FOG) fake illness and often go to amazing emotional extremes to prevent an adult child detaching healthily from the family.

If the adult child manages to do it then the separation will be blamed on the spouse. It is not seen as a positive step to grow up, mature and separate and it is not a life goal of the parent to encourage independence, quite the opposite.

Because emotionally it’s too overwhelming to admit to themselves that their adult child wants to separate, other people outside the family of origin will be blamed, and that’s usually the spouse. So the parent develops and “Us vs. Them” mentality.

Enmeshment is a lack of boundaries in the first place, so any boundaries make an enmeshed parent feel threatened, angry, frightened and out of control. They don’t have a good sense of self, so they gather family around themselves and don’t allow separate personalities or points of view.

@pussincahoots just threw up in my mouth a tiny bit-thanks for that

With MILs as grandparents I honestly wonder if its because some are almost competing with their peers over their contact with DGC

THIS!!!! My own bloody mother does this. I allowed her to be at the birth of DS and she uses it to play top trumps with other grandmothers. Makes me feel very used.

@pussincahoots did you actually want to ask me something?

@LadyRannaldini, my experience was the complete opposite: My DM makes no demands on our time at all and is just grateful to see us whenever we can all get together, my MIL on the other hand wanted us to visit every weekend (she took it very badly when he left home and we moved in together) as well as every family birthday, mother's and father's day, Easter and Christmas.

We eventually had to take a step back and get some boundaries to protect our time because the constant pressure to be there and put her before everyone and everything else was causing too much resentment. We see DH's family less now but enjoy the time we spend with them more because we're seeing them because we want to and not because we feel obliged or guilt-tripped into it.

@Catherine1987 Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I used to remind my DH to return his mum's calls and ask when he wanted to visit them, but as soon as I left it up to him, MIL and BIL accused me of stopping him from seeing his family.

Ida b Wells great post on emeshment.

I wonder if some posters who always endlessly post on Mil threads are reading still.

It may help with their general understanding of other set ups and why it happens... Whilst it's personality based it's much more than that thrown in.

Am I correct in saying you are suggesting I am being controlling for wanting a harmonious relationship between MIL, DH and me @Catherine1987?

My MIL honestly believes that if she said the word to DH that he would move back home, forsaking me and the family we have. She believes that as his mother she is the most important woman in his life.
Truth is, she is the 3rd most important woman in his life, and he does not like her because of the way she acts.

Sad really. This is all her own doing.

It's all bully, big I am tactics.

I think it's about control, for sure. Also a fear of exposure. If they have been controlling and toxic, getting their own way for decades then they are of course going to protect their little kingdom from outsiders who haven't spent their whole lives being conditioned to do as mother (or father) says. They are bound to point out to their previously obedient subjects that their demands are unreasonable and don't always need to be complied with.

It also often coincides with a time in life when they are feeling less powerful in general. Maybe retiring, maybe feeling invisible as an older person, maybe less active etc.

It's easier to scapegoat a DIL than to address a dynamic that's been going on for decades.

Some great mil theories.