To consider ending a 15 year + friendship because of this? **Potentially Distressing**

[NaviSprite]

I’ll try to be short as I’m torn between absolutely seething and just gobsmacked.

Today a person I have known since I was eleven years old (roughly) hit a very raw nerve.

I was out with her and my toddler twins. A nice older lady complimented them and I politely said thank you, then she asked did I have any other children. I explained gently that I have three children. My lovely twins and my baby boy who never got to experience life (he was stillborn at 42 weeks - earlier this year). My friend then cut into the very short polite chat and said “but he doesn’t count.”

She actually said my third child, my second son, didn’t count. Because he isn’t with us.

This friend has children of her own (home with their Dad today) and she had relatively straight forward pregnancies and births with them, which I’m happy for.

My twins were very premature and low birth weight, they fought hard to make it through (they’re thriving now and I’m so proud) and she has often made odd comments whenever they have received compliments too.

Best example is when an acquaintance said how advanced they were.

Thing is they seem that way to observers because they’re still very small for their age and so to other people who don’t know much about them, they seem to be younger than 20 months old and so what is regular for most toddlers to do, seems impressive because people don’t know that’s how old they are (if that makes sense?).

I’m actually a little uncomfortable with compliments in general so I just go with the default smile and say thank you approach.

My friend then said “they’re 20mo, when my DD was that age she was already walking and saying at least 20 different words.”

I’ve tried thinking about things from her perspective but I’m at a bit of a loss and so very hurt. I don’t know if this is her weird version of a competition. She doesn’t bring her children when she comes to visit so I don’t think it’s a case of my twins taking attention away from her DC... I just don’t get it.

But the comment today about my stillborn son, that cut deep and I don’t know that I can forgive it.

I asked why she said he “didn’t count”. Her reply was “Well you never really had him”.

So I guess my post wasn’t that short (sorry!).

My question is, should I consider the friendship over? Or am I overreacting?

The more I think about it, she has often made somewhat cold remarks but I think today it finally hit me just how harsh she can be....

You have three children. Sadly Christopher is not with you. And for you that is unbearable and for us and your friend, it is tragic.
Christopher is now and always part of you. He may not be in your arms but you have created him as much as he has created you as the person you are now and will always be. Christopher and you are equals.
For your friend to dismiss baby Christopher they are dismissing you for without him you would not be you.

Of course Christopher counts.
My grandmother had a son called Robin, he counted as well.
Don't let your friend's insecurities make you doubt yourself.

I'm so sorry you lost Christopher.

I'm named after my mum's older sister who died at two months old in 1942. She is still spoken of and remembered to this day.

Your insight into how your past affects your life now is excellent - I think you're at the point where you could really benefit from counselling. You just sound so ready to be done with this crap and move on.

You sound like you have a lot to offer as a friend. Maybe join a baby group when you feel ready to find new friends. Reading groups are good - your local library might have one.

Enjoy your family without people like your 'friend' around. You might find this link interesting.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/emotional-freedom/201101/the-5-types-emotional-vampires-in-your-life

She's not your friend. That's a despicable thing to say. She has: a) no empathy or compassion & b) resents any attention you or your children receive. Ditch her.

Your 'friend' sounds pretty vile. I think your life would be better without her.

I am so sorry for your loss and hope your lovely twins will thrive.

Your son counts... she doesnt. Take care you sound like a lovely mum x

How hurtful for her to say he doesn't count. He's still your beautiful son! Definitely cut contact, she's very cruel!

I'd cut her loose, with a "friend" like that you don't need enemies.
Christopher is your son and always will be, her words will never, ever change that fact.
My dd was stillborn, three months after she was born my "friend" asked me to babysit her 4 month old baby so she could go have an abortion. I very much pro choice but that was just too much! Needless to say I ended my friendship with her.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Do talk about Christopher with your twins as they get older . Let them know about their little brother and how much he is loved and missed every day . You will make new friends , esp when your little ones start school , ones who will understand what you’ve been through and be sensitive to your feelings . There are good people out there , hiding amongst all the arseholes . I hope you find them soon xx

She's awful. Really awful.

I’m sorry to all those mums who’ve lost a baby . My colleague lost his little boy at 6 months old . We talk about him because I know he needs to hear his name . We celebrate his birthday with him and remember the day he passed . We’ve helped him raise thousands of pounds to celebrate his first birthday and his second and recently his third .
We are mindful of our children who are the same or similar ages to his little one . These are the things you do for someone you care about .

Agree with so many supportive responses. Every angel counts. Your 'friend' sounds toxic, and possibly jealous or craving attention so badly that she is belittling others to make herself feel better. Sending warm wishes your way

Christopher counts

Your friend is a cow and you’ve completely done the right thing

Beautiful, lovely Christopher

I'm so sorry for your loss. He was still alive, he developed and moved inside your body, he was very much here on this planet.

Your friend was grossly insensitive. I think a 15 year friendship may deserve another chance but you need to write to her and tell her how she's made you feel. If her reaction is deeply apologetic then fair enough but if she brushes you off or dismisses your feelings then it is time to end it.

@Navisprite I lost one of my twins at full term as well and Christopher does count. I always tell people I have three children and that my older son passed away. Your friend is a butch. I am furious on your behalf and so sorry he died cx

I’m so so sorry @NaviSprite, her behaviour is inappropriate, cruel and not something you should put up with or worry about.

Please please don’t downplay this or think you should just forgive and move on. I can understand she’s an old friend. Perhaps you could write a short note and see what happens, but unless she’s willing to humble herself, apologize openly, and educate herself, I can’t see the point in having someone like that around.

I’ve been parenting longer as my kids are older, one of my biggest regrets for both myself and our family is that I put up with far too much crud from “friends”. No one is perfect, of course we should extend grace, compassion and forgiveness; but some people don’t share our values, and can truly make the days harder. It is much better to clear the air and move on, and in the case of this friend, that probably means keeping your distance. As a mother I’m shocked at her behaviour, it’s the lowest of the low to make such a comment about a child whose life was lost. Truly abhorrent.

Wishing you well!

Better to have no friends then to have her as a 'friend' op.
Yeah fair enough if she is jaelous of all the attention that your twins are getting and maybe (just maaaaybe) making a comment on it.

But to discard your stillborn baby ... fuck that absolutely breaks my heart. He counts. He counts. And he IS here with you. In your heart.

She doesnt count and she shouldn't be here. Get rid of her op!!! She is a lunatic.

Your son counts. The cow and her opinions and comments do not. You can absolutely state you have three children and talk about Christopher. Fuck her and other peoples uncomfortablities.

Good friends, real friends, will support you in remembering him. As will empathetic people.

As for the comments on your twins, she sounds like putting you down and upsetting you makes her happy. Nasty POS.

My little boy born sleeping is named Christopher.

I've never become teary from reading MN before, this line just got me.

Hope you're ok OP what a horrible thing for her to say and you to experience.

That's where the friendship would end for me, I would never be able to get over those heartless words. I wouldn't even be able to talk to her and explain my feelings as clearly she wouldn't get it.

God bless your boy, Christopher.

I think you have done the right thing OP in ending this friendship. Your ex-friend sounds like she is completely lacking in empathy, filters and any kind of impulse control. So she thinks a thing and says it, without pausing to consider how appropriate or kind it is. You don't need that in your life. It is staggering that someone would say the things she has to you, does she not understand that those comments are entirely wrong (and horrifically wrong) things to say to anyone? Many PP have said she is totally insensitive and I agree with this also. She sounds like she is terribly pedantic and wants all statements to be as factually accurate as possible, ignoring the fact that it doesn't need to be said and is actually better to not be said. She either doesn't understand that some things are better left unsaid, or she does but doesn't care. She does not sound jealous though, I don't get why posters are thinking she is? She doesn't have any reason to be envious of OP that I can see (sorry if this comes across as rude, it isn't meant to be).

The fact that OP has had to explain her feelings to her "friend" and her friend hasn't realised or understood that she has been hurtful (or has made out that she doesn't) suggests this woman was totally insensitive, lacks basic understanding of societal norms and doesn't have any brakes in her mind to stop her from speaking her unpleasant thoughts. OP you're well rid.

You're bound to make a new friend or two when your dc start nursery/preschool or baby groups and activities. You sound lovely (and very forgiving and tolerant!) and you will find someone you click with who will treat you with the kindness you deserve.

Christopher most definitely counts, he’s your son and you’re his Mum. And I’m so glad you’ve ended your friendship with someone who doesn’t grasp that.

Well done OP you've done the right thing, you don't need her in your life. You will make other friends and this time they will be decent. X

Well Done OP.

You showed in your Fierce Mummy Defence of Christopher just how much he counts!

I have not endured the loss of a child but I would steer well clear of anyone who was so insensitive and unkind about anyone.

It’s about her values, as well as your own sensitivities.

I wish you strength in your ongoing freedom from this woman.