To consider ending a 15 year + friendship because of this? **Potentially Distressing**

[NaviSprite]

I’ll try to be short as I’m torn between absolutely seething and just gobsmacked.

Today a person I have known since I was eleven years old (roughly) hit a very raw nerve.

I was out with her and my toddler twins. A nice older lady complimented them and I politely said thank you, then she asked did I have any other children. I explained gently that I have three children. My lovely twins and my baby boy who never got to experience life (he was stillborn at 42 weeks - earlier this year). My friend then cut into the very short polite chat and said “but he doesn’t count.”

She actually said my third child, my second son, didn’t count. Because he isn’t with us.

This friend has children of her own (home with their Dad today) and she had relatively straight forward pregnancies and births with them, which I’m happy for.

My twins were very premature and low birth weight, they fought hard to make it through (they’re thriving now and I’m so proud) and she has often made odd comments whenever they have received compliments too.

Best example is when an acquaintance said how advanced they were.

Thing is they seem that way to observers because they’re still very small for their age and so to other people who don’t know much about them, they seem to be younger than 20 months old and so what is regular for most toddlers to do, seems impressive because people don’t know that’s how old they are (if that makes sense?).

I’m actually a little uncomfortable with compliments in general so I just go with the default smile and say thank you approach.

My friend then said “they’re 20mo, when my DD was that age she was already walking and saying at least 20 different words.”

I’ve tried thinking about things from her perspective but I’m at a bit of a loss and so very hurt. I don’t know if this is her weird version of a competition. She doesn’t bring her children when she comes to visit so I don’t think it’s a case of my twins taking attention away from her DC... I just don’t get it.

But the comment today about my stillborn son, that cut deep and I don’t know that I can forgive it.

I asked why she said he “didn’t count”. Her reply was “Well you never really had him”.

So I guess my post wasn’t that short (sorry!).

My question is, should I consider the friendship over? Or am I overreacting?

The more I think about it, she has often made somewhat cold remarks but I think today it finally hit me just how harsh she can be....

Christopher counts. He will always count.

Your "friendship" with this person does not count. People will behave in the ways that you allow them to.

I'm sorry she was so horrid to you

Your friend sounds rather cold and unfeeling.

Wow, what a horrible horrible person. She is no friend, of course your beautiful boy counts, how dare she. I never usually get het up when reading or responding on MN but this is just horrible. You take care and find better friends.

You are a mother of 3. And always will be. Christopher will Always be part of your family.

What she said was incorrect and unforgivable.

You had him honey. You had him for 9 months. Every second of those beautiful 9 months.
Big hugs to you. Your friend is a dick. You deserve better friends.

of course your little boy counts, what a truly dreadful thing for you to hear from anyone, let alone a supposed friend. Her ongoing digs at your little twins aren't right either. I'd be ending the friendship, you dont need that sort of nastiness in your life.

My friend's first child was also born sleeping, and we talk about her all the time - she would have been 9 last month

That is so lovely. My DS would have been 9 this year also but no-one around me will talk about him. If I talk about him, which I rarely do, I can see them squirming so I just don't really bother.

She’s not your friend. Don’t waste your time of feelings on this person. She’s not worth it.
Bin her off.

OP, this rung a bell with me as I also had to drop a childhood friend when we started having children, as her desperation to always have one up on me was cast in a new and deeply unpleasant light I couldn't ignore anymore.

This friend didn't just deny your relationship with your son, she brought it upon herself to interrupt and 'correct' you infront of a stranger and your two children within months of the loss of your baby boy. It was deliberately nasty. Please don't feel the need to explain your feelings to her, you should only speak to her to let her know what a shit she is.

He counts. He was stillborn but he was still born. He was loved. And he lives inside of you. All of that counts.

Your twins sound amazing. (I have a 26 weeker who is now 2). Anybody who tried to ‘compete’ with me over him wouldn’t get my friendship. Anybody who has survived NICU/SCBU knows what a tough journey that is. And to feel jealous of your twins is as bad as dismissing Christopher.

Christopher most certainly does count. I’m sorry your friend said that - it was an awful and horrible thing to say.

She sounds unhinged... she is no friend honey, your baby boy will always count. Xx

Text her and say:

“Dear xxx,

After your comment to the lady today about Christopher, I gave it some thought and I decided, he definitely counts more than our friendship. Our friendship doesn’t count anymore. I wish you the best and hope you develop some empathy but for now I prefer to continue my journey without you in my life.”

She had no reason to even speak at that point and to try and justify her comments was appalling

I'm not sure you will be able to make her see your point of view if she was obtuse enough to make the comment in the first place and not realise it was insensitive. I would be inclined to just cease all contact, if she asks why then tell her then.

I agree with pp you have subconsciously realised this comment has crossed a line and you will never think the same about her again...

Christopher is your son OP and always will be. Your twins sound amazing too.

Your friend on the other hand, is an absolute cowbag! How dare she say that Christopher doesn’t count?!?

I could never, ever have her in my life again.

Christopher of course counts OP.

I'm so sorry she was so mean, as hard as it is I think you may need to let her go as a friend.

One of my friends was expecting twins but unfortunately one died in utero and was therefore stillborn at 36 weeks. I first met her a few weeks later when she was clearly very raw and having the other twin alive - which was obviously wonderful - constantly made her think about the daughter who died. Nearly 10 years on her daughter is often mentioned, her other children talk about her. She has her photo in her room and a special memorial area in her garden. There is no way that baby didn't count!
Ignore your friend for a while. She may realise how hurtful she was. I am shocked that with children of her own she doesn't have empathy but clearly she has some issues of her own whatever they may be.
Try and take time to look after yourself. Losing a baby is horrendous.

If she didn't agree then she should have kept quiet, instead she chose to kick you when your down.I'd drop her for good, just tell her either your too busy in future or that you have better things to do than be in the company of a total bitch.

What a disgusting thing to say to someone. Of course he counts.

Sorry I went quiet for a bit. The anger faded and after I sent a quick message to my no longer friend I went a bit numb/zoned out for a while (plus have spent the last few hours trying to convince DD to go to sleep and she finally settled about 20 minutes ago!)

Thank you everyone for opening my eyes. I think I give people a lot of leeway because I was brought up in a rather dysfunctional family. This person was around at that time and now the wool has been pulled away from my eyes I have a sickening feeling that she’s always kept me around because I did make her feel superior in some grotesque way. I just continued to let it happen because I thought it was normal. I feel like a massive idiot to have let it continue for so long. After taking stock of the years I’ve known her I realise how much harm she actually brought into my life but then ‘made up’ for it by being overly giving afterwards. Same pattern of behaviour my abusive ex used years ago... who she introduced me to

I think I need to try and gain confidence to make new friends now - If I can.

Christopher most certainly does count. My brief time with him means more to me than the 15 years I’ve known her. I was holding back on ending the friendship because I had it in my head that it was another loss. But as you lovely PP have shown me, cutting her out of my life is actually a gain.

Thank you so much for backing me up - I don’t get that much IRL xx

So very sorry for the loss of your son I have a friend who I've known for many, many years I have supported her through thick and thin and have made many allowances for her unacceptable behaviour and hurtful words... BUT she recently froze me out big time and now I feel I cannot forgive her so have treated her the same. She knows that you've always found social situations difficult so I assume has always been the one to step forward verbally etc... as a good friend she'd also know how utterly devastated you are over the loss of your LO which makes what she said even more inexcusable. I've learnt that quality is better than quantity where friends are concerned, cut this insensitive 'friend' out of your life and get yourself friends who would never say that your baby doesn't count.

Age is not a good indication of friendship. Some friendships are past their self by date. Xx

I've just RTFT & am so struck by all the lovely support you have got @NaviSprite, as well as feeling tearful about all the sad, touching stories PPs have shared. ❤️ to you all.

I wanted to join in & say too that yes, absolutely Christopher counts and I'm so sorry your time with him was brief.

Reading your last post, you have NOTHING to feel foolish about. I think you sound amazing; you're now recognising your 'friend' for what she is, a very jealous person. It sounds as if you are right. She thrived on your difficulties & can't bear to see your success & celebrate the joy of your fantastic twins.

You sound so lovely. There will be better friends. ❤️

Of course your beautiful boy counts. And he will do so every single day for the rest of your life.
That would be the end of the friendship for me, I'm afraid. I'm so sorry xx

Oh bless you and your twins and your gorgeous boy Christopher, who does and will always count.

Well done for getting her out of your life. I bet that without her around you will realise how much she as dragging you down and you’ll now be able to find new friendships that will flourish.