To consider ending a 15 year + friendship because of this? **Potentially Distressing**

[NaviSprite]

I’ll try to be short as I’m torn between absolutely seething and just gobsmacked.

Today a person I have known since I was eleven years old (roughly) hit a very raw nerve.

I was out with her and my toddler twins. A nice older lady complimented them and I politely said thank you, then she asked did I have any other children. I explained gently that I have three children. My lovely twins and my baby boy who never got to experience life (he was stillborn at 42 weeks - earlier this year). My friend then cut into the very short polite chat and said “but he doesn’t count.”

She actually said my third child, my second son, didn’t count. Because he isn’t with us.

This friend has children of her own (home with their Dad today) and she had relatively straight forward pregnancies and births with them, which I’m happy for.

My twins were very premature and low birth weight, they fought hard to make it through (they’re thriving now and I’m so proud) and she has often made odd comments whenever they have received compliments too.

Best example is when an acquaintance said how advanced they were.

Thing is they seem that way to observers because they’re still very small for their age and so to other people who don’t know much about them, they seem to be younger than 20 months old and so what is regular for most toddlers to do, seems impressive because people don’t know that’s how old they are (if that makes sense?).

I’m actually a little uncomfortable with compliments in general so I just go with the default smile and say thank you approach.

My friend then said “they’re 20mo, when my DD was that age she was already walking and saying at least 20 different words.”

I’ve tried thinking about things from her perspective but I’m at a bit of a loss and so very hurt. I don’t know if this is her weird version of a competition. She doesn’t bring her children when she comes to visit so I don’t think it’s a case of my twins taking attention away from her DC... I just don’t get it.

But the comment today about my stillborn son, that cut deep and I don’t know that I can forgive it.

I asked why she said he “didn’t count”. Her reply was “Well you never really had him”.

So I guess my post wasn’t that short (sorry!).

My question is, should I consider the friendship over? Or am I overreacting?

The more I think about it, she has often made somewhat cold remarks but I think today it finally hit me just how harsh she can be....

Honestly I don't think any apologies could suffice for such a comment. Just drop her as quick as you can.

Of course your son counts. I understand you dislike the thought of losing a friend, so perhaps raise it with her and the other comments and tell her you felt upset/offended and would prefer her to keep unpleasant comments to herself. She can’t carry on making these comments but she will if you don’t tackle her.

I'm so sorry OP. What a horrible thing to say, I just can't account for why she'd think that was alright?! Of course Christopher counts!! To think or say otherwise is madness. This friend sounds so insensitive I just don't think she deserves you in her life. When you feel strong enough, it's time to say goodbye to her negativity.

I have a friend who lost a child at birth. When asked by people she doesn’t really know she only tells them the number of children alive. It’s easier than dragging up memories and causing distress to all involved is her rationale.

Doesn’t mean she doesn’t deeply care about the child they lost, nor think of them just as much as the others, it’s just much easier for her socially/with colleagues/out and about.

I think you should have it out with her and tell her exactly how she makes you feel with her horrible comments.

I don't think why she does this is of much relevance*. The fact is, she has done it and there's no excuse. It wasn't her conversation, she interjected herself and it was effectively a put down (as was the comment about your twins), on the cruellest subject.

*Learned behaviour from another relationship in her life, I suspect. Some people do this because it's a pattern of interaction they've been raised with. Again, no excuse.

I'm so sorry your lovely third child is not with you and I am so sorry your 'friend' has done this. I happen to think this goes beyond the forgivable.

Of course, he counted!

I think you know that this friendship is over.

I think I have to message her with it, normally I’d do it face to face or via phone call but she can be rather difficult.

I think perhaps I’ve held on this long because other than a couple of friends that I only see once, maybe twice a year (they moved out of the country) she’s the only person I have (or I suppose had before today) as a friend.

I’m so sorry you didn’t have more time with Christopher (one of my favourite names btw!)

Better to have no friends than a ‘friend’ like her.

Seriously.

I’m very sad to say I’m sure she was 100% aware of what she was doing and wanted to hurt you.

She sounds like someone who is so bitter and miserable the only way she gets pleasure is to degrade other people.

Particularly lovely people as she sees kindness as a weakness as she can’t relate to it or understand it.

I suspect you’ve grown used to a very toxic dynamic that now feels normal.

It’s not.

You may have known her for 15 years but think really hard, has she actually been someone who has nourished your life all of that time?m
If not, you don’t have a friendship of 15 years to end.

She sounds cruel and bitter and if you let her get away with this she’ll open the tap of poison that she’s currently dripping into your life.

It’ll continue to erode your soul and it will do the same to your kids.

I would advise to block and delete, ignore in public- she doesn’t even deserve a fade out let alone an explanation.

You be kind to yourself rn and know that even complete strangers will think of you as a Mum of three beautiful children, cos you very much are.

What a terrible thing to say to you. I would be so upset then livid in your shoes.
I don’t like her other comments about her children being more advanced at the same age. She sounds like she enjoys making you feel shit tbh.
Have no qualms about ditching this person - she’s no friend on yours

Grasping at desperately thin straws...has your 'friend' maybe lost babies to very early miscarriage, and doesn't think of them as 'children' and perhaps thinks that you should think of Christopher in the same way? She may also be breathtakingly socially inept or have some kind of social difficulty that means that she takes any praise of your children as a kind of indirect insult to her own?

I dunno, just trying to play devil's advocate.

Christopher is, and always will be, as much your child as your twins are. She was wrong.

Of course Christoper counts. I'm so sorry for your loss but he absolutely belonged to you. Yours. 💐

I'm disgusted on your behalf. I cant get over the comment at all.

Is she like this in regards to other things like homes, decorations or material things??

Every mum thinks her child is the best, the brightest, the smartest and the most beautiful. Even though we realize EVERY mum feels exactly the same, we secretly believe ours really is the best, the brightest, the smartest and the most beautiful. Most of us learn to keep our secret feelings of our child obviously being the best to ourselves, or come to a realization that admiring other children for all of their qualities takes nothing at all away from our own, some mums need that competition to maintain their inflated sense of superiority. I am sorry your friend is the competitive sort. Your twins are surely a joy and a blessing to you, and I am so sorry they didn't get to meet their brother. Of course you will remember him always, and count him among the children you have had.

She wouldn't want to come round to my house where I have pictures of my baby (deceased) in every room. If she tried telling me he doesn't count she'd be sorry. Your 'friend' is appalling. I wouldn't contact her but if she does make contact and has to even ask why you're annoyed/upset, then I'd tell her that her insensitive remarks were a step too far and you are not in a position to see her again. It's hard enough dealing with grief without people belittling your loss.

Your darling Christoper counts.

You are a Mummy of 3.

She is a disgrace and you are better off without her. I'm not sure there is much coming back from that

OP, if she was any kind of true friend she would know how raw this is for you. She would support you.
You did have a little boy, born sleeping or not, he will always, always count.
If she can't accept that, you need to find better friends.
As for the corrected age comments about your twins, I had that from people when DS was small, he was 12 weeks early, and when people who didn't know would comment on his abilities, one of my in laws used to comment about "oh yes but he's actually X months/years not what he looks like".
I snapped in the end and really told her what for. She has never said a word since.

Christopher definitely counts , and you deserve better friends.

@trinity0097

I appreciate that is probably the way I might have to answer in future. But today was the first time anybody has ever asked me how many children I have and I would have felt it wrong not to say his name.

She is not your friend. She’s not even a nice person. No one with any amount of compassion would EVER tell you that Christopher doesn’t count. Of course he counts. He is your SON.

She is a monumental dickhead and quite frankly one of the most horrible human beings that I have the misfortune of sharing the planet with. If you can manage to be coherent I would send her a very short, terse message to explain what an absolutely horrible thing it is that she has said. Personally I’d be incoherent through sheer rage for a very, very long time. She doesn’t deserve friends with thoughts and behaviour like that, she needs her head looking at.

So sorry for your loss of Christopher . He absolutely counts.

She seems to be jealous and want to put you down. In the past do you think she's always seen herself as superior in some way? That she can't handle what she sees as others' approval of you? Or resents the attention you're getting?

But that doesn't really matter. Her actions are nasty and unfeeling. Whether you want to continue to expose yourself to her is really the question.

Of course Christopher counts

I couldn’t be friends with someone who said something that cruel to anyone. You deserve better.

I have often wondered if my friend has a reason for these outbursts- I have found that I have had to explain my feelings a fair few times to her throughout the years and often it leads to some kind of apology.

She sounds horribly insecure.

And possibly she doesn't actually like you and gets her kicks out of putting you down in this way. Which is probably unpleasant to hear but you sure as hell shouldn't like her. At the very least, she sounds like a horrible friend.

Christopher counts.

It sounds like he and your amazing twins have a fantastic mummy. You've been through so much and sound like such a strong person.

Your friend sounds awful. She doesn't deserve you in her life.

I wonder why she feels she needs - and has a right - to say things that she knows will hurt you? What kind of person feels better when they make others feel bad?

Christopher is such a lovely name, a fine name for a much loved and wanted child. He counts in every way.

As she is such a long-standing friend I'd let her know how you feel but this comment is cruel and thoughtless I can't imagine ever being friends with someone who said that.