To consider ending a 15 year + friendship because of this? **Potentially Distressing**

[NaviSprite]

I’ll try to be short as I’m torn between absolutely seething and just gobsmacked.

Today a person I have known since I was eleven years old (roughly) hit a very raw nerve.

I was out with her and my toddler twins. A nice older lady complimented them and I politely said thank you, then she asked did I have any other children. I explained gently that I have three children. My lovely twins and my baby boy who never got to experience life (he was stillborn at 42 weeks - earlier this year). My friend then cut into the very short polite chat and said “but he doesn’t count.”

She actually said my third child, my second son, didn’t count. Because he isn’t with us.

This friend has children of her own (home with their Dad today) and she had relatively straight forward pregnancies and births with them, which I’m happy for.

My twins were very premature and low birth weight, they fought hard to make it through (they’re thriving now and I’m so proud) and she has often made odd comments whenever they have received compliments too.

Best example is when an acquaintance said how advanced they were.

Thing is they seem that way to observers because they’re still very small for their age and so to other people who don’t know much about them, they seem to be younger than 20 months old and so what is regular for most toddlers to do, seems impressive because people don’t know that’s how old they are (if that makes sense?).

I’m actually a little uncomfortable with compliments in general so I just go with the default smile and say thank you approach.

My friend then said “they’re 20mo, when my DD was that age she was already walking and saying at least 20 different words.”

I’ve tried thinking about things from her perspective but I’m at a bit of a loss and so very hurt. I don’t know if this is her weird version of a competition. She doesn’t bring her children when she comes to visit so I don’t think it’s a case of my twins taking attention away from her DC... I just don’t get it.

But the comment today about my stillborn son, that cut deep and I don’t know that I can forgive it.

I asked why she said he “didn’t count”. Her reply was “Well you never really had him”.

So I guess my post wasn’t that short (sorry!).

My question is, should I consider the friendship over? Or am I overreacting?

The more I think about it, she has often made somewhat cold remarks but I think today it finally hit me just how harsh she can be....

Thanks God!

Well done, I’m so relieved to hear that.

It’s not your fault, predators like this prey on people who have your background.

Enjoy your lovely family and choose your friends wisely, they are people who will make you feel loved, cherished and secure.

Anything less is not worth it.

Next step therapy...

Finding someone who will help you manage your feelings about Christopher not being physically with you?

Also unpicking and rewriting the way your childhood setup programmed your thinking re: relationships may help you make some real l, solid, meaningful friendships - which is what you deserve.

You’re allowed to feel all the emotions rn.

Be kind to yourself.

Real friends are hard to find in life. This person does not sound like a real friend, she has little empathy for your sad situation. Stillbirth or other loss of a child could happen to any mother and would still be equally heartbreaking.

It might be an idea to let her know how you feel about her unkind words, then sever ties with her.

Wow what a bitch. I’m so sorry, but she’s definitely no friend. I’m actually gobsmacked someone could be so callous.

That’s so awful! Why do you even want to be friends with her? She has the right to be proud of her own kids, of course, but why does that need to come at the expense of tearing down your twins and saying awful things about your son? Of course he counts.

The counts to me and every decent person who reads your post.

It would be bad enough saying a baby didn't count to someone having an early miscarriage (and I've had two and would be hurt if it had been said to me. I feel I'm a mum of five but I'd never voice that out loud) but to someone having a full term loss? Words fail me.

When someone hurts you it doesn't matter if you've known them a day or a decade or even more, though genuine friends get passes, but this time? No pass, no excuse. She'd be gone from my life.

I’m so sorry for your loss. 💐 As others have said, this person is no friend to you. What a horrendous thing to say, bless your little boy and bless you. For what it’s worth, I too have ‘broken’ up with a very long term friend recently. She was not as unpleasant as the individual that you refer to but after 25 years of friendship and a small disagreement she decided that she did not want to be friends anymore. That was 6 months ago and I’d be lying if I said that I don’t still feel sad about the loss. We were v close for a long time and I’ve gone through ups and downs about the situation. I too don’t have loads of friends however, I think time has shown that she was not the friend I thought she was and you will get to that point too. I’ve grieved the loss of this friendship too, something I think is v normal. I would advise you to grieve the loss of this friendship and use the time to enhance the friendships you do have and be as friendly as you want to be with others. Before you know it relationships will start to develop and you’ll forget a little bit more about this ‘friend’ with each passing week.

You carried Christopher for nine months. So you very definitely had him. OP, I am so sorry for your loss, and you might be better off without this friend.

My god that is a despicable thing to even think, never mind say aloud. Of course Christopher counts, how much he was wanted and how much he is loved still, counts.

I have seen your posts re she being the only “friend” you have close by. But she is no friend to you. Having a small circle of close friends is ok. Please don’t let her belittle and bully you any longer because she is geographically close. It is her with the problem, not you.

Bless beautiful Christopher’s soul.

I’m so sorry about your tragic loss, sweetheart. Baby loss is still so taboo. It makes it hard to talk about and very isolating for bereaved parents.

I have one DC here with me, but I will always be a mother of 6. Sending you empathy 💐💐

I am so sorry about your lovely son. Of course he is your son.

Some people do seem to take some weird pleasure in befriending people they see as vulnerable or lesser. They do this because they think they can behave shittily without being challenged. It's crap, weak behaviour and she is no friend.

I have had a few friends like this. I am now older, wiser and take no shit (the only menopause positive )

There are other, much nicer people out there.

I missed Christopher's name - sorry

Good riddance to bad rubbish. What an utter utter arsehole!!!!
God bless your Christopher xx

”...but someone who is meant to love you needs to understand or bugger off.”

@scater has summed it up perfectly, @NaviSprite. What your ‘friend’ said was cruel and unkind, and utterly wrong.

Christopher counts. He matters.

My goodness - reading this made me so very sad. Of course your little boy counts.

Surround yourself with people that are positive and make you feel good. I’m not sure this person does by the sounds of it.

This lady is not your friend. She may be your oldest friend but she is certainly your worst friend. Your wee boy definitely counts, he existed and no one can take that away from you and your family.

I would not be seeing this woman again. I would rather be friendless than spend 1 more minute in her company. Praying for you and your family. You are stronger than you think.

Christopher counts, he matters and he made a difference in your world.
She is not a friend; concentrate on your lovely little ones and building up your own self esteem. You are worth more.

To be honest, I wouldn't be on MN thinking about it, she would be binned immediately. Your son was and still is hugely important. I can't decide if she is incredibly stupid or just nasty.

I would concentrate in making new acquaintances that can develop into friendships and let this friend go. Just because you have been friends for a long time doesn't mean you have to stay friends.

Your lovely Christopher absolutely does count and always will.

What your friend said is both utterly vile and unforgivable. She doesn't deserve your friendship.

sorry for your loss and of course you must talk about Christopher. Are there any support groups locally that you could join so you could support others as well and perhaps make new friends? You don't need this person in your life .

Many, many people are completely incapable of talking about death and behave atrociously with the bereaved - whether it is a lost child, parent, or husband, there are so many examples on mumsnet of crap ways people have spoken to the bereaved. I would almost give a person a bit of leeway for this but this is clearly not a one-off, foot in mouth moment for this "friend" she is a repeat offender and you're better without her.

OP, I am so sorry, what a horrible "friend". Christopher counts, of course he does, he will always count because he IS your son...he will always be your son. You can absolutely, proudly count him alongside your other children. I won't focus too much on the absolute danger that your former friend is...because ensuring that Christopher's presence is remembered is the most important thing. God bless him and you xx

Something happened in your friend’s life.. that made her resort to thinking being unkind makes her feel better about herself.

She is going to do this to you regularly.

You probably see the good in her. Because I’m sure we all have goodness in us. But truth is her behaviour towards you will always carry a great deal of unkindness where she hurts you.. to make herself feel better.

So you need to decide.. being there in her life is actually not helping you or her.. you are enabling her to deflect the issues she is facing by temporarily fixing them at your expense. She makes you miserable because this is how she handles her misery.

I made a decision recently that I prefer being alone than being with friends who tear me down. No matter how much I feel for them.

Keep your distance and expect her to behave unkindly. She sounds extreme tbh

You lost Christopher at full term earlier this year and get a comment like that. It beggars belief. You don’t need someone like that in your life. I am so sorry for your loss.

@MarielVanArkleStinks

I am so glad you ended this "friendship". I very rarely would suggest falling out with someone or cutting them off but this person is making herself feel superior by putting you down. She will continue to do this if you let her. Please don't get drawn back in if she apologises. What she sad about your son was truly nasty, and wrong. flowers