To ask if those who want to leave the EU are happy to be personally worse off in order to do so

[Bearbehind]

Following lots of discussion on the subject, it’s clear that leaving the EU is based on something other than financial impact, however, even the government’s impact assessments make it clear that there will be a negative impact.

Would you still chose to leave if you knew it would make you personally financially worse off?

I love how my gently pointing out that it wasn’t all bad has been totally recast as something entirely different and rebutted without it even happening.

Haha. Well you haven't said how it was beneficial at all. As it stands the pound falling hasn't helped pretty much anyone!

@TheBigBallOfOil

And that is why I chortle when brexiteers claim to be democrats. What they are are people determined to enforce their own crappy view of things on everyone no matter what the cost.

Yes. Not only that, though, but Brexiteers aren’t even agreed on their vision. Some want a Norway-style deal, some want a Canada-style deal, some want a Switzerland-style deal, some want to have their cake and eat it, some have no idea what a deal is, some want fewer immigrants, some want more immigrants from non-EU countries, some are anarchists hoping that leaving the EU will destabilise capitalism in the UK, etc...

That is the real nonsense of Brexit. Brexiteers claim to be the defenders of democracy, but no one has any idea what they voted for - because every Brexiteer voted for their own little fantasy. At least we know what the 48% voted for.

I voted remain. It's very possible that both DH and myself could be out of our jobs next year, partly because of Brexit and, more importantly, we've been unable to find out if DH's medication will be available without a break and we can't stockpile as they won't issue the repeat prescriptions early - no medication = death within a few days. Understandably this is causing us some stress.

But, hey, worse case scenario I can at least tell our son that it was all worth it because we'll have our fucking sovereignty back

Until we leave we won’t actually know as everything is not based on facts as we don’t know what the facts actually will be. Everyday we get scareheadlines that something has been caused by Brexit, then when facts start to come out actually it’s got nothing to do with Brexit. With car crash economies in the Eu, and the ups and downs over the past few years whose to say staying in would be better?

@TheBigBallOfOil
But that’s how democracy actually works. The Tories have cost me plenty over the years. Never voted for them.

Yes I have. I live and teach in a similar place. Look I'm not claiming everything is peachy these days, far from it, but I do fear there's still a way to drop before we hit the levels of poverty seen in the past and elsewhere on the planet.

Blamesfarts just because people have mobile phones and can eat the odd takeaway doesn’t mean that conditions are better. You do realise that in Road to Wigan Pier Orwell noted that most households owned mobile phones and people ate comfort food in much the way the people own mobiles and eat junk food these days. The parallels are uncanny. My family were miners in Wigan at the time Orwell wrote Road to Wigan Pier and I can say that the only difference is that people had hope back then, where now there is only despondency.

Orwel didn’t note that people owned mobile phones. He noted that each household owned radios...

you have to vote for what you believe will benefit you/your family/future.

And there is the problem.

Surely the principled way to vote is for the option that will do the most good for the largest number of people.

because every Brexiteer voted for their own little fantasy. At least we know what the 48% voted for.
No we don’t. There are as many variations of remain as there were leave. From “we should integrate fully including joining the euro” to “the EU badly needs serious reform but we should do it from within” and all flavours between.

Eh? Who mentioned mobile phones and takeaways? Look we're obviously on the same side. Let's save our ire for the people putting kids into poverty and leaving them there.

Haha. Well you haven't said how it was beneficial at all.
Whereas you claimed I had actually said something else.

I mentioned mobile phones and takeaways to illustrate the point I made about a lot of parallels between Orwell’s observations in his book and the social and economic issues people in these regions face today. You make the point that things aren’t as bad as they were during the war. I disagree. Simple really.

Farmers around Wigan receive £2m per year from the EU. The EU has also invested in youth projects and research programs in the town. I don't see how leaving the EU is suddenly going to make Wigan more prosperous. If, as most often predicted, the UK's economy takes a downturn, places like Wigan will probably be hardest hit.

NameChange I can tell you in no uncertain terms the investment you speak of has made fuck all difference.

Won’t make me worse off :)

@HopelessLayout even if that disadvantages you? I'm not sure, if you posed the question like that, many people are truly that selfless.
Would you sell your car and give the money to 10 strangers?
Would you give up £1million pounds, and share it out between 10 strangers?
Surely that's the best option for the largest number of people, but would you really do that? Honestly?

Or do you have to put yourself and your family first?

bearbehind why do you keep on starting brexit threads, over and over again?
Most MNers are remainers, some are leavers. What do you hope to achieve by asking the same question over and over?

Bearbehind
It seems Leavers fall into 2 camps

- those who are rich enough not to care because it won’t affect them and they aren’t at all concerned about those who it might affect

- those who simply don’t want to believe there will be any negative finial impact

Are you including those that have nowhere left to fall in your second camp?
Those that are already on the breadline and are using foodbanks etc.

These people will be no worse off. Why?
Because they have nothing to begin with.

As for those saying the construction industry is suffering, The rate at which new builds are going up here says otherwise, and the y are planning to build another 400 + houses per year per sector of council on top of what they already are building.

I don't agree the logic that just because someone is in poverty currently they couldn't possibly become any poorer.

Nessie - i feel you are trivialising this, very few have a £1m to give away on here or in real life.

We live in a collective, we pay in the form of various taxes to make life better for the majority, thats the aim or has been.....

The problem with the OPs question is that it depends on the degree of loss, you or i could lose 50% of income but still be ok, some of the families i know would be destitute if they lost just a few £ per week.

"Short term disruption" is very much like "Collateral damage" in the context of a missile strike.

50% of our export goes to the EU - pretty much makes it likely to impact us. Less than 10%of eu export comes to us - they are less dependent on us than we them

Minty because the Brexit Board threads are an echo chamber for ardent Remainers and they must get a bit bored by constantly repeating the same old, same old to each other.

One of the pp's on this thread is the creator of the Westminders threads on that Board - they're getting bored and want some Leave posters to gnash their teeth into - it gets really quite funny over there, as the echo chamber rings with the same words over and over.

I voted Remain for purely selfish reasons. At a pinch I would probably vote the same way again. But in my heart of hearts I'd like to shove the EU's anthem up Guy Verhofstadt's fundament.

Nessie, I couldn't work out if you were being flippant, niave or just having a typo when you referred to poverty as having only £20 left at the end of the week (or whatever). That's not poverty. Poverty is having £20 left at the start of the week and wondering whether to spend it on food, or heating and how many meals you can safely skip so your kids don't miss too many. It's bursting into tears when your dc has a hole in their shoe because you have literally no idea how to replace it. That's not my life now, but it was growing up and too many people still live that way. And I was lucky, we had a secure roof over our heads and good friends.

My concern with brexit isn't the genuine people who think the cost will be worth it, even if they aren't going to pay it themselves. Its the people who will pay the highest cost and are being told (by politicians who can weather the storm) that it will make their lives better. The voters in the towns that stand to lose their remaining large businesses...