To tell people it’s often worth persevering with breastfeeding

[BarberBabyBubbles]

Obviously not if baby at risk or mum at risk in any way and bf not helping. Or if mum just doesn’t want to etc etc.

But for my own part, I really really struggled with bf DD1. Just the usual really - sore nipples, cluster feeding for hours, blocked ducts, she lost a normal amount of weight at first but it worried me as I was new to it.

But after about 2-3 months it was very easy and very convenient FOR ME. Yes there were benefits to the baby but my life was also a lot easier. My mum suggested I stick with it because it would be beneficial in the long term and she was right.

I feel like bf gets a bad press. I often get a lot of “sympathy” that I am still bf (I’m now bf DD2 and it is so bloody easy this time round). I do wonder if people could see the benefits after the tricky bit is over they might stick at it a bit more?

The support I know is sadly not really there but also I think it’s a shame some people stop when in the “normally difficult” period.

Why are people who didn’t want to/couldn’t breastfeed so defensive about it?

It’s fine if you didn’t want to do it. It’s fine if you started and found it too much and so decided to stop. You really don’t need to defend it at every turn.

I feel as though women who breastfeed and find it easy and enjoyable can barely mention it without being accused of being “insensitive”, or that awful, go-to word that’s used to shut up any woman who feels happy with herself or something she’s done, “smug”.

@weraver it's because often rather than people sharing their positive experiences of BF, there are always some who will chime in with how rubbish FF is and how it's lazy and boredering on selfish and neglectful to BF; which is of course emotive and doesn't help promote discussion on BF. There's hope for this thread though!

@BertrandRussell Agree with all your points and I wish someone had listed those points to me.

It's an individual decision and I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer.

I know plenty of women who pushed through the bad days and successfully breastfed for years. It was an amazing experience for them and they'd have been very sorry to miss it.

I know others who struggled on for months and eventually switched to mixed feeding or formula, only to see their constantly miserable, failing-to-thrive baby transform into a happy, thriving one.

I've known others who went through hell trying to breastfeed exclusively against the odds and ended up with only negative feelings towards that first year of motherhood (to the point of claiming that all women hate their babies and that those who claim to love them are liars involved in a conspiracy of silence).

You'll only ever know with hindsight whether your choices worked for you.

@Sandybval I hope there is hope for this thread!

The reason I suppose I started another thread is because I couldn’t read the one heading up to 1000 posts as it’s too depressing.

I did persevere. I got to say proudly that my babies were breastfed. I spent 3.5 years of my life as a breastfeeding mother.

I was exhausted much of the time. I had a horrible time with mastitis. They still have allergies and eczema. They still had to have medications to fix eye infections and ear infections. It took me forever to lose the baby weight because I was so fecking hungry all the time.

If I did it again I'd mixed feed tbh. The advantages of breastfeeding really didn't outweigh the disadvantages.

Also, I think "you can breastfeed as much or little as you like" is a good message, whether that's acknowledging that mixed feeding is just fine, or accepting that some mothers will want to stop after a few months (but it's also great if they don't).

I mean, you can want to breastfeed your baby exclusively but not necessarily want to nurse a two year-old several times a night for comfort rather than hunger. But - when I researched the subject for a friend - a lot of the breastfeeding forums were very finger-wagging, how-can-you-deny-your-toddler's-emotional-needs, rather than "well done you for breastfeeding for two years, here are some tips on night weaning if this is where you are" .

I could and would never have persevered with pain, bleeding shredded nipples, exhaustion and crying through feeds just For the sake of a bit of breastmilk. fuck that. It might be “best for baby” but giving birth didn’t turn me into the kind of person who would suffer unnecessarily myself just for the sake of giving my baby some breastmilk. Feeding had to work for me and not just the baby. Maybe that’s selfish, I give zero fucks.

I persevered, with two tongue tied D.C. and low supply both times. Fed DC1 until 2.5, with formula top ups. DC2 is 2yo now and still going. Got my supply up enough to drop the formula top ups this time, and my god it’s so easy not to have to lug bottles and formula everywhere!

Holidays were easier, nights away, nap times, everything. Massively easier being EBF than when I was using formula. Massively. And I’m not stressing about dental issues from bottles either.

I think, with there being so much clear, proven science re the health risks of formula instead of breastfeeding, everyone should give it their best, and persevere as long as they can. Everyone has a different set of circumstances, a different amount of support and a different level of tolerance, so perseverance will differ for each woman. But I really do think we should all give it our individual best shot.

I'm very much 'happy mum = happy baby" and it's no-one elses business. But I do get very irritated by messages along the lines of "I had no milk by day 5 and had to give formula". This is entirely normal. We are designed very poorly with regard to nutrition in these first few days and milk does take its time to come in.

I persevered for weeks and weeks and weeks. But a baby with tongue tie and and mother with inverted nipples was pretty much a non starter. My only regret is not giving into the bottle full time sooner. I would have avoided pnd and bonded with my child earlier.
Also I didn’t have 2-3 months to allow myself to keep trying as I was back at work at 3 months.

One message that I disagree with that goes our time after time is that it shouldn’t hurt. Even without issues such as tongue tie and latch, it hurts like a MF for two weeks until your nipple adjust to having something wet apply force to them. So many women stress that they are doing it wrong and they are not!

Hmm I'm in two minds about this. I think that yes if approached with sensitivity and taking the lead from the person you are speaking to its OK but that it's not ok to tell people that all they need to do is persevere and it'll work out in the end. It absolutely didn't for me.

I have mixed fed 3 children - despite desperately trying to ebf. I have had support from midwives, health visitors, breastfeeding support workers, groups, mumsnet etc. I have expressed round the clock, gone through the cluster feeding, skin to skin power pumped, compressions, various herbal teas, loads of water, fenugreek tablets, oak cookies etc. Nothing worked for me and the doctor wouldn't prescribe doperidone.

My supply has always been the issue.

DC1 she would just knod off when feeding - EVERY time. Nothing would wake her and eventually the midwives pressured me to top up with formula. The formula of course messed things up. With A LOT of work I did manage to increase my supply by the time she was 5 months old and we managed about a month of no formula. Then at 6 months she started biting and wouldn't stop and by that point I just couldn't do it anymore.

DC2 was similar and just kept sleeping and not eating. In the end she screamed and screamed so much and just couldn't get from me what she needed, that I gave her formula. I spent most of my time with her on me trying to breastfeed, top up, express and then I'd be up in the night expressing too. I found it incredibly hard when she'd want feeding at say 8am and then I'd feed her for 30 mins and then we'd need to go to school and shed scream there and back because she wanted formula. It just didn't work. I could give her the formula and she'd be full in 10 mins and happy vs devastated when being breastfed. Plus I wasn't ever able to give DC1 the attention she needed because a "feed" would take around an hour every 2 hours once you factored in bf+ff+expressing - it's not like it was say the first 6 weeks, this went on and on. In the end I was so exhausted and I was verging on depression from it all I just stopped at 3 months. I just felt society thought I should be breatsfeeding, which is why I persisted for so long. If you'd come up to me and said I should persist and it would be worth it in the end it would have tipped me right over the edge.

DC3 is now 9mo and I'm still mix feeding now but I have very little milk. It's so disappointing and should have been different. All went well for the first 4 days until she was admitted to hospital with a serious infection and put onto IV antibiotics. They weighed her and she'd lost 14% of her weight and also diagnosed with cmpa due to rash/vomiting/diorreah/excessive wind. So they moved her onto special formula. She was also diagnosed with tongue tie. Perhaps some people would have battled through but I couldn't risk my mental health. I exclusively expressed while there but I also had a post natal infection. When she was discharged from hospital a week later and I was better I cut out dairy and resumed breastfeeding alongside formula but much as before my supply never recovered. I have tried everything i could but have to accept that it is what it is and have given up on the hope that I'll ever ebf. Aside from anything I've had a 2yo and 7yo to look after as well and it has restricted me from having the same success that I did when I only had DC1. Still, she's 9mo and that's the longest I've managed and at the very least it gives her comfort and a bit of my milk. Again, if you had at any point told me to persist then the pressure of it probably would have had the opposite effect.

I don't really think it's as straightforward as saying to women to persist and it'll be worth it. It's simply not always true. I think you need to find the right outlet for it, so that it's well meant advice and reaches the right people.

Really interesting reading. @MrsMiggins37 absolutely. My best friend just didn’t want to do. Fair enough.

I think I’m really talking about people who want to bf, are struggling but not to the point their baby is failing to thrive or their MH is suffering. That was me anyway. Baby was thriving. I found it hard. My MH probably did suffer if I’m honest but temporarily.

I'm with you OP. 100% fed is best, and if a mother chooses not to breastfeed, or there are medical risks then formula is of course completely the right thing to do. However I do think there could be much more support to educate new mums and encourage breastfeeding.

I wish I was told how painful it could be to start with - I kept getting told by midwives and HVs that if I'm doing it right it won't hurt, which I know now is rubbish, but I was so worried I was doing it wrong throughout those early days. About 2 weeks later the pain subsided and since then it's been quite easy. Baby was eating well and gaining weight throughout those weeks so it wasn't an issue with latch, just accustoming the nips!

I think a lot of tongue ties are also initially missed on new borns, which makes it much harder for baby to adequately feed, and more painful for mum.

There is also a fair bit of misinformation about breastfeeding, for example drinking alcohol - there is no need to pump and dump, or be tee total while breastfeeding, but this can be another reason why mums don't want to do it.

It's sad that positive stories and experiences of breastfeeding can be viewed as smug or self congratulatory, when in reality sharing our experiences (good, bad and ugly) could help other new mums.

@kunderscorej as I pointed out to the op earlier, becoming a breast feeding counsellor may help other new mums more than a thread on mumsnet.

And bf threads often are smug and self congratulatory. Op has already started on the health benefits......

My issue is that these threads can make other people feel worse about was is happening or has happened to them..

A ‘I am breastfeeding AMA’ thread would probably help somee people

Ah well it only took until Page 3 to be ruined! It is an interesting conversation to have though, shame it isn't possible on here.

“A ‘I am breastfeeding AMA’ thread would probably help somee people”

It wouldn’t, you know. You can’t say anything positive about breastfeeding on MN without being pilloried.

What's with all the bf threads in the last 2 days? Yes it's worked for you and well done. You dont need to tell anyone to stick with it. I'm sure a mother can decide for herself whether it works for her and it's her choice

This. With bells on.

I had to express exclusively for first 12 weeks till my DD could latch and feed properly and while it was v tough, it was really worth it. Now 5 months in she feeds like a dream and it's so easy and convenient. But those first three months were definitely tough at times, so I'm glad I persevered. While not the case for everyone, I think breastfeeding starts out more 'difficult' than formula and then become easier, whereas formula feeding is perhaps easier at the start but never gets any easier.

Nottheboreworms

What's with all the bf threads in the last 2 days? Yes it's worked for you and well done. You dont need to tell anyone to stick with it. I'm sure a mother can decide for herself whether it works for her and it's her choice

But that's not what the thread is about, its about women who want to keep breastfeeding, but quit as they think they are doing it wrong ie baby feeding all the time doesn't mean theyre hungry but it's normal to promote supply. Its a shame it can't be sensibly discussed, as I feel like although formula is great I wanted to BF but wasn't given the advice which would have meant I could have continued. Stark difference from the OP insinuating everyone should BF . I think the benefits of BF over FF are largely inflated but it's something I wanted to do, and it should be able to be discussed reasonably.

Or quitting because it's hard and they think it will stay hard, when for some, it doesn't.

Lots of BFing threads atm.

I agree for the most part. I found BFing my first two DC so difficult at first. A combination of recovering from very traumatic births, bleeding nipples, thrush, mastitis. All very painful and I was on the verge of giving up but I persevered and found it so much more convenient in the long run.

For whatever reason (maybe because the births weren’t traumatic) it was super easy BFing DC3&4 from the off. I think having lansinoh cream to hand was an enormous help . It just is 100x more convenient than I’d imagine formula is. I couldn’t be arsed getting up through the night to make bottles or taking bottles everywhere I went.

How sad is it that you even have to ask. Of course it's not unreasonable to say that bf gets easier. It does get easier. What's unreasonable is that some people feeling guilty that they didn't do it have tried to make out that it doesn't matter, that FF is just as good bla bla bla. We need more people supporting bf, and not being made to feel they're in the wrong!

I feel as though women who breastfeed and find it easy and enjoyable can barely mention it without being accused of being “insensitive”, or that awful, go-to word that’s used to shut up any woman who feels happy with herself or something she’s done, “smug”

This with bells on.
There have been a few threads recently with this tone running through. Saying things like ‘ALL women who BF are smug’ and essentially saying they’re fine with us doing it, but we aren’t allowed to talk about it. I have nothing against women who choose to FF.... but they aren’t a persecuted minority!