To tell people it’s often worth persevering with breastfeeding

[BarberBabyBubbles]

Obviously not if baby at risk or mum at risk in any way and bf not helping. Or if mum just doesn’t want to etc etc.

But for my own part, I really really struggled with bf DD1. Just the usual really - sore nipples, cluster feeding for hours, blocked ducts, she lost a normal amount of weight at first but it worried me as I was new to it.

But after about 2-3 months it was very easy and very convenient FOR ME. Yes there were benefits to the baby but my life was also a lot easier. My mum suggested I stick with it because it would be beneficial in the long term and she was right.

I feel like bf gets a bad press. I often get a lot of “sympathy” that I am still bf (I’m now bf DD2 and it is so bloody easy this time round). I do wonder if people could see the benefits after the tricky bit is over they might stick at it a bit more?

The support I know is sadly not really there but also I think it’s a shame some people stop when in the “normally difficult” period.

I suppose it depends on the context of ‘persevere’.

If someone is saying: I really really want to breastfeed, but God it’s hard right now and I can’t imagine battling in like this for six months - then surely it can be helpful to hear ‘it probably won’t be like that for six months, this is the toughest part, it gets better’.

If someone is saying: I have given breastfeeding a shot but I don’t want to do it any more, I don’t care if it gets easier - then it’s not helpful to say ‘you should stick with it!’

But if women don’t KNOW it gets easier/different after the first few weeks, and many women don’t because our mothers and sisters and friends had switched to formula by that point, then they don’t get to make an informed choice about whether it’s worth powering through FOR THEM.

Monkeytrap summed this up very nicely.

I think it’s a shame some people stop when in the “normally difficult” period.

Your very first post assumes to tell other women what they should do because you know what is “normal difficult” based on your experience, and it’s a “shame” they make different choices to yours.

I agree OP. Remember crying about 3 weeks in with DD1 and telling DH that it was painful, I was exhausted etc. We agreed that I would keep going until he went back to work (I was really lucky with DD1, DH was able to take 9 weeks away from work) and if it was still horrible then, I could stop. By weeks 7/8 it was totally fine and I was so glad I had persisted. I do see though that when you’ve got a new born saying “wait 8 weeks” is tantamount to saying “wait 8 years”.

@BarberBabyBubbles - I'm all honesty it sounds more like you had a typical BF experience, rather than a hard one

I do get irked by bf'ers who bleat on about 'giving it a go' the whole 'it's really awful but I got through it with perseverance ' bollocks - a lot of bf problems is emotional and hormonal - everyone reacts differently and sometimes it's best for the mums mental health and the baby's well being through mum being ok thst matters more than someone pushing them who had no clue about what's going on inside that poor mother in those darkest night time hours when they're beyond the pale

53rdWay

Then make the information available to them - fine. Some women do experience severe pain. Some women do experience feelings of extreme tiredness and sadness.

But nobody really tells women that.

They say things like, “A bit of crying in the middle of the night? Well, that’s not depression, is it?” Like the OP.

Well normally difficult totally I agree is up to the individual. That’s what I meant by “”.

If someone wants to stop. Stop. Totally. I agree.

I didn’t want to stop. I had people telling me to stop telling me “happy mummy = happy baby”. But it was a blip for me and nothing too serious. I’m glad I continued. I would have been upset if I’d stopped.

@53rdWay I completely agree. If I had thought my entire bf experience would like the first few weeks I would have given up straight away.

"I would have been upset if I’d stopped." So you have some idea of what it feels like when poor health forces you to stop.

I think the OP was talking about her own experience, re: crying in the night.

I think the OP was talking about her own experience, re: crying in the night.

No, really, she wasn’t. She was saying diagnosed depression is a good reason to stop BF, but not just a bit of crying in the night - that’s normal.

But she isn’t there. She can’t comment on the normality of that for other women, or how it might make them feel, or how hard it might be for them.

She is NOT just talking about herself, or even what she would have liked to be told. She is saying it is actually a “shame” for other women because they couldn’t “persevere” like she did.

I’m really not. I’m saying it was my experience. I’m saying it can be really really really hard at the start (so hard that I remember being in tears) but if you want to persevere (and persevering is appropriate) it often gets better and it can be great.

Well, she said: “I think I’m really talking about people who want to bf, are struggling but not to the point their baby is failing to thrive or their MH is suffering. That was me anyway.“

So that is a group of people that is not just her. But it includes her.

I suspect we are not going to agree on whether or not she is instructing other people that they should continue to breastfeed when they don’t want to. I don’t think she is, but I think I’m putting more weight on the “people who want to bf” part of her statement.

@bellinisurge yes I do. Personal experience from friends who’ve had very traumatic births.

I’m really not. I’m saying it was my experience. I’m saying it can be really really really hard at the start (so hard that I remember being in tears) but if you want to persevere (and persevering is appropriate) it often gets better and it can be great.

So what was the point in talking about diagnosed depression? What were you trying to get at, if not suggesting that a diagnosis of depression is an “acceptable” point to give up breastfeeding, but a little bit of crying isn’t? Why make that distinction, and why do you feel qualified to do so?

I don’t understand why some people get so angry and defensive over quite reasonable balanced posts about breastfeeding, like the mere mention of it is an affront.

I’ve had five, and I do wish someone had said this to me with the first. I was surrounded by women who bottle fed and my family were set against bf. I gave up quite easily tbh as I ‘couldn’t do it’. Had I been bolder I’d have told people to sod off with their opinions and sought help. Even midwives and HV encouraged the bottle.

The next I extended bf and loved it, I loved not getting out of my warm bed in cold winters! I loved going out without carrying what I had with me or staying out longer than planned.

The next due to a combo of prem, SN I tried to mix feed and went to bottles very quickly as it was too difficult to balance with a toddler and the difficulties we had. It was right for her and I was no less of a mum nor was I judged.

The next two I bf again.

All are healthy and I have equal feelings about them and they thrived. I can talk about the benefits of both without getting angry, and I fully support my friends who simply didn’t want to bf. We are different people and we get on just fine respecting each other’s personal choices.

Frankly we need to as women learn to talk about this more freely and stop making it about us, emotionally trying to shut each other down. I’ve been there on both sides, I have friends on both sides. It’s ok to listen to each other’s experiences calmly without the drama and nonsense. Breast is generally best, though not for everyone’s circumstances. That’s the message. There’s support and people who’ve been there before who try to help others, listen if you want to and leave the voices alone if you don’t as others may want to hear

I think there's some (dare I say it) deliberate misunderstanding of the word 'normal' here. We should use that word because:

A) it's accurate
B) it describes behaviour - ie normal weight gain for a BF baby, normal nursing behaviour (more frequent feeding, cluster feeding, 'second night syndrome' etc).

No one is saying being in massive amounts of pain or clinically depressed is normal. What people are saying is some of those issues might (or might not) be dealt with proper early support.

The amount of people, for example, I know who had a undiagnosed tongue tie which was agonising. That's not normal, and that's why they should have proper help.

I have been to a lot of breastfeeding groups and I have never seen a midwife or BF supporter put pressure on a woman. Always gently asked what their goals are (which were sometimes to stop or mix) and then referred or supported. I have never heard anyone told being in huge pain is normal.

If anyone has been told that, I would encourage them to complain about the service.

I have never heard anyone told being in huge pain is normal.

But it is. Lots of women report lots of pain. They’re not just not told this is normal, it is minimised: “Oh yes, a bit of pain is normal.”

“No, I feel like my tit is going to fall off.”

“Just persevere. If you’re in extreme pain that’s not right, but for now, just carry on.”

“I am in extreme pain.”

“Well, it can’t be that bad... Lots of women do it.”

Yes. Lots of women experience a lot of pain, and this is normalised and minimised because “persevere”.

Well, then, that exactly proves the point that those support services leave a lot to be desired.

This is quite a circuitous argument.

Zone4flaneur

I agree with that. I disagree that that is so that more women can be encouraged to BF, or that it is a shame that they don’t. It is only a shame that women aren’t told the truth.

@1crazybear the fact the post has even been created is condemning. And all the points people are making re breastfeeding.

I should have breezed past this post like I usually do. Damn pregnancy insomnia! It’s a shame you can’t block particular subjects on MN, as this has been discussed to death and anyone starting such a post (in my opinion) is looking to cause controversy.

Back to real life where keeping my son alive and happy is the only thing worth getting in a discussion about.

But the thread isn’t just about talking about one’s own experiences; it is about asking the question of whether other mums - I only they realised their pain and depression were normal

@herculepoirot2 this is a quote from your post. The only reason I mentioned depression was because what you say here implies I’m saying depression when Bf should be persevered through and in normal. And I was not and not saying that.

And I was not and not saying that.

No, I know. You are attempting to say that what others experience as sadness (whether that be a feeling or a few tears in the middle of the night or whatever) when BF should be persevered through unless it is diagnosed as depression, but because it’s “normal” it probably isn’t depression.

For me, I don’t care whether what someone else experiences is diagnosed as depression or not. If they feel it is too much for them, who I am to argue? Who are any of us?

But of course, depression IS normal. Lots of women get it. And people like you call it “tears” and suggest they just get on with it, hiding behind the normalising of symptoms of depression as being something women should “persevere” through, even if they don’t want to.

Hercule cheers to ruining the thread FFS.