To tell people it’s often worth persevering with breastfeeding

[BarberBabyBubbles]

Obviously not if baby at risk or mum at risk in any way and bf not helping. Or if mum just doesn’t want to etc etc.

But for my own part, I really really struggled with bf DD1. Just the usual really - sore nipples, cluster feeding for hours, blocked ducts, she lost a normal amount of weight at first but it worried me as I was new to it.

But after about 2-3 months it was very easy and very convenient FOR ME. Yes there were benefits to the baby but my life was also a lot easier. My mum suggested I stick with it because it would be beneficial in the long term and she was right.

I feel like bf gets a bad press. I often get a lot of “sympathy” that I am still bf (I’m now bf DD2 and it is so bloody easy this time round). I do wonder if people could see the benefits after the tricky bit is over they might stick at it a bit more?

The support I know is sadly not really there but also I think it’s a shame some people stop when in the “normally difficult” period.

But the thread isn’t just about talking about one’s own experiences; it is about asking the question of whether other mums - I only they realised their pain and depression were normal - couldn’t carry on (persevere). The verb persevere is very loaded, because its opposite sounds like quitting. The insinuation is that mothers who don’t aren’t tough enough. And how is that supportive?

Hercule I think a huge amount of family support is needed and if your own mum, aunts, grandma, sisters etc have zero clue about bf and how it works, you are gonna struggle.

You are right. I remember thinking at 6 weeks this is the hardest thing I've ever done no wonder people give up. I totally get it with no judgement. My main motivation to bf was to stop abusive exh being able to take dd1 away from me for more than an hour or so so a little different but glad I stick with it.

“The insinuation is that mothers who don’t aren’t tough enough. And how is that supportive?”

No it isn’t. The “insinuation” is tht in many-not all-cases the pain is temporary and will pass. Or is the result of something fixable If you know that, you can decide to give it another day or two or try and fix it If nobody tells you that you might well very sensibly decide to give up. It’s all about making informed choices

I'd no support from family or friends to bf, but a good bfing support group made up for that gap. And I absolutely did "persevere" against a run of "you're tired just give him a bottle" "you've given it a try", "ah he's hungry are you sure you have enough milk?" Etc etc. I had more pressure to ff than I ever did to bf. I also had no idea how hard it might be for the first few days, and this came as a shock to me.

Yep- and also please people, stop assuming that anything positive anyone says about bf is a judgement on ff. It isn’t. And the assumption makes conversation very difficult.

This is always used to shut down the debate. As in the touchiness about ff. it really reminds me of the transphobe argument.

Bf needs to be talked about it's a public health issue

If we can't say we persevered at bfing, we had better remove the word entirely from our vocabulary. I can't persevere at ttc, or at my diet, or at couch to 5k - as I might upset anyone who for any reason at all was unable to do this.

Yes, because people who struggle when they are at their most vulnerable are really mean. Ffs, can't you see the difference?

Breastfeeding threads fall into the same category as threads about parent and child spaces on MN in my mind, the reaction to both topics seems really odd.

I BF DC1 and am now BF DC2 who is 10 weeks. Didn't have an easy initial journey with either (DC1 - emcs, tongue tie, sepsis at birth, IV antibiotics for both of us, pre eclampsia DC2 - elcs, severe undiagnosed posterior tongue tie, severe jaundice, 12% weightloss) but by week 8ish we were out the other side and from then on we had a straightforward time of things.

Personally I want everyone to have information and choice and be supported in their choice (whatever that might be). I wonder if some of it is the way in which information or advice is being delivered rather than the actual information/ advice itself? People often say that they felt bullied or patronised or looked down on, is that because of the information they were given in itself or the manner in which it came across?

“Yes, because people who struggle when they are at their most vulnerable are really mean. Ffs, can't you see the difference?”
Can you explain, please?

I never get why people who are so anti BF turn up on these threads anyway if all they have to say is "FF is equally good because my FF child is now a 7 foot Oxbridge graduate so therefore there is no need to support BF".

Some pain is normal. Diagnosed depression? If bf is part of the cause I hope no one would suggest a mum persevere. Tears in the middle of the night? Normal in my experience.

Bf my first is absolutely something I persevered at. I wish I had been told how hard it was going to be. I was woefully unprepared.

I also persevered at running a half marathon. Their was pain yes. There was no depression. And I often needed encouragement to keep going.

I don’t have a problem with the word in the right context.

What I mean is that you are at your most vulnerable after you have had a baby if you have post natal health problems that you are struggling to deal with. To then have to endure hcps telling you to just try harder to feed your newborn is horrible. And then to have people on here calling you over sensitive for being upset about it and expecting careful language. Quite weird.

@bellinisurge but the point of these discussions is to hope for better. To have HCP's who support your choice if you say I do not want to BF anymore, but if you do want to but are struggling, give more meaningful advice than just to continue; but to listen and explain what is 'normal', or if something like Combi feeding might be better. But these discussions can't happen when it inevitably turns into a bun fight.

I don’t have a problem with you persevering. I have a problem with your assumption that everyone else should do the same. It is literally none of your business.

Hercule I think a huge amount of family support is needed and if your own mum, aunts, grandma, sisters etc have zero clue about bf and how it works, you are gonna struggle.

I EBF for 4 months and mostly BF/expressed for 9 after returning to work FT. I did it with very few real issues. Yes, it took perseverance. I wouldn’t dream of commenting on the choices of a wider group of women.

There’s also a disconnect in what ‘support’ means, especially when there’s so little of it about. So some women who tried and tried and went through hell understand ‘support’ to mean what they got, which was ‘people saying encouraging things and occasionally giving ineffective advice about the mechanics of feeding’, and say ‘fuck that I didn’t need more ‘support’’. And they’re not wrong but it doesn’t mean a better system couldn’t have given them support which was actually useful.

And of course support looks different for different people. I didn’t need much help with the mechanics, but I would have really appreciated less subtle pressure to quit from friends/family/medical people, and less of the assumption that bf is a hellish slog and all women who do it are secretly looking for permission to stop. But I’m sure all those people thought they were helping me.

Better support for women who want to breastfeed is something I would hope we can all agree on. I was really lucky and in my area there were drop in clinics almost every day, which I went to. It didn’t work - she just had a crap latch. Maybe it would have got easier - who knows? I certainly don’t mind the OP giving her experience that it did. It’s also valid for people to come on the thread and give their experience that it didn’t.

I also wish I had known that not having any milk at the start is fine - I was told she HAD to be fed every 3 hours and when 2 midwives scraping a syringe I’ve my nipples and squeezing my breasts to express some didn’t work (she wouldn’t latch), they told me to give her formula for that feed. I ended up doing that for every feed where she wouldn’t latch and I couldn’t express - and my supply never really recovered. I’ll know for next time so this thread has been useful to me.

Of course women should be able to talk about bf and spread awareness of their experiences (positive and negative). Of course women should be supported to continue to bf if they want to.

I do think it’s possible to have this conversation without going on about it being better than formula and how everyone should breastfeed if they can. Most posters on this thread have done that, but as ever there’s a few who haven’t. There is nothing to be achieved by such comments except to upset FF mothers, and they aren’t relevant here. Save them for the “AIBU to think breast milk is identical to formula” threads.

I find it annoying the way that a mum can be struggling with SEVERAL issues post natally and it's always "pressure to bf" that it is pinned on. Some of the issues can be helped in many ways, of which switching to formula is just one. I'd like to see men get more paternity leave, in an era when many women dont have much family support post natally eg because their own mum is in work themselves, 2 weeks is not long enough for father's to be at home helping. I remember crying loads my husband's first day back at work because he had been helping me position baby for feeds - if my MIL hadn't turned up with lunch and helped I'd probably just have had to give in and give formula. I was SO lucky to have that support but many don't.
Some people might also benefit from staying in hospital 2 or 3 days longer, if they wish to.

Some pain is normal. Diagnosed depression? If bf is part of the cause I hope no one would suggest a mum persevere. Tears in the middle of the night? Normal in my experience.

And it is this sort of snide nastiness that this thread is in real denial about. “Diagnosed depression? Oh no, certainly feel free to stop. But not if you’re just crying. Oh no. That’s not depression. You should carry on. Like I did. Because I am AWESOME.”

Fuck off, eh?

@Hobbes8 she was born on the 15th of June so three weeks ago, it was my first as well so it wasn't great or what I expected, placenta had failed so she was estimated at 5lbs... she came out at 6lbs.

Next time I'll go straight for the c section! I've never had surgery before so being in theatre with a lot of people rushing in was intense!

I would rather her be fed to be honest than struggle to breast feed, she's put on a 1lb in 3 weeks and I'm told that's good

Thank you I can definitely understand a mother's love now

bellinisurge

I guess the same could be said for those who have struggled and have successfully been able to breastfeed to be categorised generally as 'smug' the 'braestapo' and wanting 'a medal for feeding their baby'.

No you fuck off herculepoirot2 with your arm chair diagnosis.

GPatz

My what?!

My DS is 3 months, he lost 10% initially but I knew my milk had come in the same morning he was weighed and that that would resolve it, and it did, he was a pound heavier than his birth weight a week later so beat the requirements to get back to birth weight and some.

After 4 weeks I was feeling much happier and after 6 weeks I felt I’d mastered it. Now I’m so glad I preserved, as there’s no sterilising or buying supplies etc. When we go out I can take just the minimal and I feed him when I’m walking the dog and everywhere. If you get held up there’s no worries about running out of milk and I haven’t got out of bed to feed since he was about 4 weeks.

It’s hard, especially as only you can do it. I expressed and DS took a bottle from 2 weeks so I got the benefits of DH being able to feed him. He gave his last feed at night so I could get to bed early and get a few solid hours which was a life saver in the early days. We’ve not had any issues of breast to bottle and back to breast so all good there.

I’m so glad I stuck with it and am reaping the rewards but I suppose it depends on why you have stopped. If I’d had major health problems I can’t say I’d have battled on. I had blocked ducts and “milk fever” but nothing that’s really derailed me.