Had a blazing row with friend at Gay Pride

[Havingarethink]

I have name changed in case I'm being a precious arse.

Me, oldest friend and his BF were at Pride in London today and were having a jolly old time, drinking, making friends with like minded people and having a right old laugh.
As the day wore on and the 3 of us were getting a bit too oiled, my friend and his partner would compliment large breasted ladies on their clevege, such as 'nice tits or' nice pair', while I cringed and stepped away.
Most of the complimentees laughed and thanked them (thank fuck for drugs and /or alcohol) but one particular girl said in a - not very serious tone- 'I'm only 15'. Omg.

As I walked ahead dying of shame, I heard my friends say to the girl and all her friends, that they were gay and to calm down .

I, in a very gentle way advised them that comments like that could potentially land them in trouble. Well I was told in about 18 different ways that I was being utterly rediculous, because 1. They are gay, so not a threat, 2. She wore a very low top, so should expect comments - yeah I know and 3.She looked older than 15 and therefore should know better????!!!.

Neither of them thought they did wrong and I tried to give them hypothetical examples of how none of those facts would matter if parents happened to have heard /seen it or if she was filming on her phone.

I begged them to drop it in the end as they took it very personally, refused to listen to me and we went round in circles. I said I would post here and show them the thread (if I'm right ).

For context my friend is late 40s like me.
So am I talking rubbish?

This really really annoys me as the mother of a teen with a very curvy, developed body. She looks older due to Mother Nature. Should she cover up to leave the house? No one “expects pervy, sleazy behaviour and sexual orientation is totally irrelevant! I tell my daughter she should dress how she wants, wearing a low top is not an invitation or permission for anyone to behave inappropriately. It’s ridiculous. How would your friends feel if that was a teenager close to them? A niece maybe? Is society seriously that backwards still what a woman (person) wears has a bearing on what they should tolerate. It’s horrible behaviour and you are totally right to pull them up on it!!!!

your friends are dicks

havingarethink will you remain friends with these arseholes? For me, that would be the end of our friendship?

Being gay doesn't give then the right to harass women.

YANBU
Awful behaviour and using their get out of jail free card by being gay 😡

Yep they were still objectifying women and making them feel uncomfortable and then victim blamed a 15 year old.

Being gay makes it worse as its the excuse they hide behind to put down women

They're disgusting. Their male privilege makes them believe they have the right to be sexually aggressive towards women and girls.

Just because they don't intend to have sex with them, doesn't make it any less sexually aggressive and the fact they dismissed the girl feeling intimidated and distressed by it by saying they're gay is fucking appalling.

It's not about them, it's about how she felt being objectified and leered at by grown ass men when she's a fucking child.

But no, let's make it all about the men eh?

Pride is about men, almost exclusively now.

Their sexuality is irrelevant, they still have a god complex and think they have a right to intimidate and be aggressive towards women and girls.

Just like many other men. They're no different to a straight man doing it, because they didn't care about her, dismissed her distress and made it all about them. So how are they different?

They're not. Why are you friends with misogynists?

Lesbians seem to have been sidelined by both Pride and Stone wall, it's all about the menz now and all the pup/furry brigade plus utter commercialism

That's disgusting behaviour OP and totally ironic given the spirit of Pride, equality etc.

I'd have been horrified too

Why on earth dont you want to fall out with someone like this? Can't understand why you'd want to remain friends with someone who views women with such contempt.

PRIDE increasingly seems to be a misogynistic event centred entirely around men and their sexual fetishes. It's no place for women, particularly lesbians

Yup ^^

Your friends are disgusting pricks.

This is why I cut my gay friend off. He was always inappropriately touching me, disrespecting my boundaries and using the excuse that because he's gay he wasn't a threat. Actually all men are a potential threat whether they like to admit it or not. And sexual assault (whether verbal or physical) is always about power, not sex so it doesn't matter if gay men are not sexually attracted to women. My friend liked to push my boundaries as a power trip and then use the "I'm gay calm down" excuse when I'd tell him not to.
You are in the right. He is very wrong. And gross.
Sorry to the poor child who had to be sexualised by a grown man.

They want to be very careful, why on earth act like that? They are very lucky they didn't get a smack in the mouth cause that would have Been the case if they had said that to my daughter at 15! Twats!

Hang on
The girl -a child - should have known better? She should expect comments because she’s got a large chest?

Victim blaming in extremis

It doesn’t matter if a man is gay straight or anything else
Harassment is harassment

What's really depressing there, is when called out on it, their response was 'Ah, but is it actually illegal/could we 'get in trouble' not, 'Ah, I hadn't thought that actually I might be making a lot of women feel uncomfortable and unwelcome at an event all about inclusivity'.

As everyone has said a) Being gay doesn't make it OK to be offensive: most women don't like having their tits commented on in the street. End of. Have they bloody heard of MeToo? Their sexuality is utterly irrelevant to how those women felt. b) Victim-blaming arseholes. Do young boys who wear tight jeans deserve to be shouted at by gay and straight men too, regardless of their sexuality? Would they have enjoyed having straight men comment on their body parts in the street as young teenagers? c) Fuck off. Honestly.

My dd came out as gay/bi recently (she's 13) - this sort of shit is one of the reasons I avoided taking her to Pride this year: does it occur to them that their actions are actively making Pride a less welcoming place for women?

I have lots of very dear gay friends but, in all honesty, some of the worst sexual harassment I’ve both witnessed and been a victim of has been at the hands of gay men. I’ve heard some of the most vile comments. One I’ll never forget is when my friend had just given birth to her first child via forceps and episiotomy, her gay friend who’d come round to see the baby continuously jokes about how “her c*nt was ruined for life now” and went on for hours about the fact her husband and her would never enjoy sex with each other again and how he’d be looking elsewhere. I’d never met this man before (or thankfully again) but he saw the look of disgust on my face when he made his first comment and said “well you’ll be taking it up the arse from now on love won’t you. Your fanny is clearly too precious to be destroyed by being butchered for a sprog”. Vile, vile man.

I’ve also been sexually assaulted by lesbian women twice in my life and harassed long term by another two I worked with, once when I was very young indeed and so I can’t say it’s merely a “toxic male” thing. I no longer trust men or women!

I think it’s more of a toxic society thing, where a lot of women are not seen as people but objects and, from my experience, if you are a woman who enjoys looking feminine by wearing makeup and dresses etc, you are seen as less worthy of respect and seen as “up for it”. I’m sick of it.

Do they usually have so much difficulty empathising with people? Understanding that other people are people too? That's it's not 'all about them'?

Nothing they've said suggests that they see these women and girls as human people.

Catcalling is nothing to do with attraction, it's about power and intimidation. Being gay is irrelevant.

'She looked older than 15 and therefore should know better' shows a distinct failure of logic (aka being a bit thick), along with the empathy failure. And, better than what? Why shouldn't she wear what she likes? Pure 'women as objects of the male gaze'.

They might like a chat with this dad, or he with them @DanganropaFlys
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3630370-ok-Im-a-man-and-I-would-appreciate-some-advice

Their comments underline the fact that men making unsolicited comments about womens bodies is about power not sex.

What comments do they find it funny to make to groups of adult men?

I just asked my dh would it be ok for a man to shout "nice tits" to some random female, he of course said no. I then asked him what if the person shouting out was gay, he said what is the difference straight or gay not right either way.

It's the 'she was asking for it' excuse. Nope - they are being disgusting.

Don’t need to add anything to this thread as it has all been said very eloquently by all previous posters already 👏👏👏 just adding that I agree, OP. We are fortunate enough to live in a time and place in which we can (mostly) safely express how we feel (on MN, on Pride, online or in person, etc) so let’s listen when dozens and dozens of women on MN respond unanimously within a few hours. So many others in the world, and in times gone by, don’t have or never had this.

So what did your friends say when you showed them this thread OP?

A twat is a twat, whatever their sexual preference & your friends are first class entitled twats