to not want my lodger's family to stay?

[Anotherbloodyname123]

Lodger announced his family (wife and two kids) are coming to visit in a few months a while ago and I'm not quite sure why I didn't think to ask immediately where they were staying. I did today as it came up and he says they're going to stay here, for two whole weeks!

(For context, he is lodging with me for a work contract, and his family live abroad)

This is a normal two bed flat and he said his family are fine to share the (double) bed and sleep on the floor.

I'm really not happy about this. He kept saying it'll be fine and the kids will be well behaved (I'm sure they will as he's very quiet and usually considerate and polite!)

He's not even really booking time off to spend with them. He said the kids and wife will stay in the flat all day Monday to Thursday as they'll be too scared to go out, and he'll go out with them on the two weekends they're here.

I said I wasn't keen but he just kept batting it back.

AIBU to not want them to stay? I'm a single woman and I DON'T want kids staying especially ones I don't know. I have a nice place and it's not child friendly. I don't have a garden.

Relevant bit of our contract is this: 'not to permit anyone else to stay in the Room, although the Licensee may allow visitors to stay overnight in the Room on an
occasional basis;'

But I also don't want to be an arsehole. He must miss them a lot!

Help.

If the colleague’s wife changes her mind about hosting - after probably half a day - they will just stay with you. It would be extremely difficult to say “NO” to them returning with the father. The CF knows this and is just going to force you into agreeing to what he wanted to happen in the first place - completely overiding your decision. You will be left in an very difficult situation too if at the end of 18 days he comes up with another plan.... “they can’t return home, have no money”..etc etc. How will you get two adults and two children out of your house then? I wouldn’t put anything past this manipulative man - you will be entirely outnumbered by these people and you leave yourself in a very vulnerable position. Just think how this might all end up.

He's all push push push, isn't he?

A friend of mine has lodgers. She's got one great one, who understands the rules (i.e what's in the lodger agreement) and who doesn't take the piss. She's also cycled through a whole bunch of idiots for her other room who've

• used every pot in the kitchen to cook a meal for their 5 mates who've then spent all evening in the living areas. Kitchen and living room still a mess the next morning - notice given that evening.
• not quite managed to pay all the rent on the day it was due, followed by avoiding her in person and on the phone, then paying a bit more money but never quite enough - given a week to sort it out then boofh - notice given.
• TV remote control hogger. I think there's a small telly in the room but Mr Lodger preferred to sit legs spread in the middle of the sofa watching whatever he wanted, loudly, on the big telly in the living room every evening from 6pm-11.30pm. Warned, ignored warning - notice given.

A lodger is a very different animal to a flatshare. When you get a good one, give and take is great but your guy is all take take take. I think it's time you gave notice.

This is your home not his .
If you know where he works you can look up his wages, but as said work from home rights mean he is not on a low wage...
Tell him your not willing to take the chance on how it will be with that many people in the flat, he can either find somewhere else or find a new room with someone who will let his family stay ...

I think you need to realise OP that with a DH & DC "just sleeping there" will be at minimum from 5-6pm onwards, cooking tea, crying, bathtime, using WiFi, toilet through the night, and early morning woken up. With these 4 people crammed into a room overcrowded, 3 of which you never said could stay. They will sneak back in when you are at work. He'll give them his key.

As a landlord, albeit a resident one, surely it's a breach to rent an overcrowded room. Your insurance will not cover any accidents that your lodgers guests cause whilst you are out. I don't know the age of his DC but look elsewhere on MN site to see what damage even your own DC can cause accidentally, let alone someone else's unfamiliar DC in a flat that is not child proofed. You don't know his family at all. It's 18 days 😮😮 !! (maybe longer)

It's strange that you are even slightly humouring this man. You have a contract with him and he is ignoring it. Who cares how much an air bnb will be?. It's not your problem. He arranged for his family to visit the country , the least of that is arranging accomodation for them whilst they are here. He can book a travel lodge, a hostel, a caravan for them by the sea..... they don't stay with you, not even one night as you are not a B&B service nor registered as such. And they don't visit and use your flat all day everyday either.
He's going to find someway that his family get to use your flat whilst you are at work and he is out.

I think you should take a serious look at his entitledness to your flat as a lodger.

OP, someone can be both 'nice' and also pushy/CF.

Someone who refuses to respect your stated and written boundaries, even if they do it in a 'nice' way is still a CF. He probably learnt early on that this is how to get what he wants.

Beware that he may just ignore what you're saying and have them come over anyway.

As for them spending the days with the colleague's wife....Are you sure that he's actually asked, and got agreement from both of them? Is it possible that he's just said it in passing and now assumes it will happen? I find it hard to believe that someone who prefers to spend her days alone would want to suddenly have to host an unknown family. Especially as they may not even share a language.

I think he's 'nicely' going to present you with a fait accompli.

If you still say no to this new idea, wait for him to suggest renting a much smaller AirBnB for you to stay in.

I'm also concerned that he's actually going to change his visa very soon so that his family will come over and then stay here. So they may stay for longer than he's saying if they start looking for permanent accommodation.

Anyone else on the lookout for an AIBU from colleague's wife? "Look what my husband has landed me in now"...

Oh and you know how you said that he wasn't to work from home on your day off?

Have you noticed that he's ignored you? He's not listening to you. He may appear 'nice' but actually nice people don't do this.

@Wrybread

He’s rented that room. OP can not dictate when he is allowed to use it. She can’t stop him working from home. He could sit in that room 24 hours a day and she cannot tell him to go out of the house. It’s his room as long as he is paying for it.

If she doesn’t want someone in her house, then she shouldn’t have a lodger. If she doesn’t want him working from home, then she can give him notice and get someone else. If you take in a lodger, you can’t tell them they can’t use their room when you decide it doesn’t suit.

He's working at the kitchen table TheInvestigator, not in his room

Tips on awkward conversations for those of us who hate confrontation.

Key phrase, "I've made my decision."

1. Get the person's full attention. "I need five minutes of your time / to talk to you / tell you something"
2. Summarise what's happened. "Last Friday you told me that you wanted your family to stay with you in your room." (if they argue with any of it just stress the key points that you will both agree on) "At the time I said (blah) but now I've had a chance to think about it properly".
3. "I've made my decision. The decision is..."
4. Stop talking, and patiently listen to the person's objections. You may look sympathetic, nod, yes I understand etc. Let them talk for as long as they like.
5. If they ask any questions, wait for a few seconds (slow down the conversation, and make sure they actually want an answer and aren't just letting off steam), then reply:

a. "But didn't you say..?". Rebuttal: "I've had a chance to think about it properly since and made this decision". b. "What am I going to do about...(his problems)" Rebuttal: "I can't help you with that I'm afraid" OR "I can give you some advice if you like, but I have made a decision". c. "Why are you doing this to me / being so unreasonable / being so unfair?" Rebuttal: "I understand how you feel. I have made a decision though." d. "What about the time when you (let them/someone else do something similar)?" Rebuttal: "This is the way it's going to be from now on." e. "Why can't you just (some suggestion/question that's all up in your bizniz)" Rebuttal: "Thank you but I will look after that on my own. I don't need your help on that today." f. "How about (suggests compromise)?" Rebuttal: "No, I have made a decision, and it's ...". "But why not?" Rebuttal: "I can explain again why I made my decision, but it still stands".

1. Wrap it up. "Thank you for the talk. The next steps are..."

OrchidInTheSun, and that’s been mentioned a lot. Everyone has said to tell him to work in his room. He has agreed so that’s the end of that issue (as long as he does it).
The poster above said that he has ignored her telling him he can’t work from him.... well, she can’t tell him not to work from home. He is paying for the use of that room whenever he wants so the OP cannot tell him that he must not be there on a Friday.

Those of you saying the lodger working from home can do so if he pleases are missing a very important point. You working from home without proper arrangements with insurance, lease, mortgage etc can invalidate all of them & put you in a very vulnerable situation. So a lodger doing so without prior okay & allowing the OP to cover herself, is really is not okay, even in his own room.

I've just read a horror story & realise now that having a lodger at all will invalidate insurance, unless again prior arrangements & extra payments are made. The lodgers family visiting suddenly throws you into needing public liability insurance on top. So that many people, kids included in your home,plus working from home puts your home at much higher risk of damage that you won't get a pay out for. WTF SHOULD THE OP RISK THAT!!

I also want to add, that the 2 most incredibly polite, seemingly lovely guys Ive known were actually incredibly manipulative CFS, who were very skilled at politely riding rough shod over everyone in their way & doing whatever they liked & did anyone else

I also think the family will turn up & stay anyway, regardless of you saying no. I think the guy has made that quite clear already by his actions so far. So you need to play this very carefully & very firmly, which unfortunately you are not. You are being way too polite & typically English & it's playing right into his hands. Life has taught me that no matter how nice they seem on the surface, give an inch & these types of CF will take 10 miles.

I agree you need back up too. You mentioned a friend from your lodgers culture. Can they help you ??

The lodger went for a cheap option a room, not his own flat, now he needs to face upto that ..
Tell him you have checked with the council, and having his family there is overcrowding, also your household insurance have said no....

Those of you saying the lodger working from home can do so if he pleases are missing a very important point. You working from home without proper arrangements with insurance, lease, mortgage etc can invalidate all of them & put you in a very vulnerable situation. So a lodger doing so without prior okay & allowing the OP to cover herself, is really is not okay, even in his own room.

I don't think that it is true. Working from home on the odd occasion is not going to turn the house into a business rather than residence and as OP works from home anyway I can't see that it would make any difference.

Dungeon I was surprised too, but if you google there are a ton of horror stories that say otherwise, especially as it's the lodger not the homeowner. I WFH & do need additional insurance & public liability, though different trade.

There's a ton of even scarier horror stories about insurers refusing of pay out on house fires etc, because there was a lodger & they use that as a get out clause, so it's not something to take for granted 🤷‍♀️

You already said No. So reconsidering will mean you being a doormat. Not to mention the wife in question may very well object to the proposal. Most people would.

He may be very nice. He may be polite. It may be a cultural thing. It doesn' t mean he isn't a CF and chancing his arm.

Originally your objection to his working from home was not just about your space, but utility usage. So again he is chipping away at your boundaries. Albeit politely.

'There's a ton of even scarier horror stories about insurers refusing of pay out on house fires etc, because there was a lodger & they use that as a get out clause, so it's not something to take for granted 🤷‍♀️'

You have to inform your insurance company if you have a lodger. I would hope op has already done that. Mine prefers it as empty houses are more of a risk than occupied ones but I could certainly see an insurer using it as a reason not to pay out especially if eg the loss is a result of a lodger acting irresponsibly or moving their friends in.
I would also expect a 2 week visit from 3 people you don't know to be seen by the insurance company as outside the normal bounds of what having a lodger constitutes, so if I was going to do this I would certainly inform my insurer first and would not be certain they would say yes without increasing the premium.
(My relationship with my insurer is a bit full on due to it being a listed building but I imagine the principles are the same.)

Dungeon I was surprised too, but if you google there are a ton of horror stories that say otherwise, especially as it's the lodger not the homeowner. I WFH & do need additional insurance & public liability, though different trade.

Well yes but insurance often won't cover any damage done by the lodger anyway. I work from home quite a lot and don't need any additional cover as I'm not running a business from home. You only need public liability if people are coming to your house.

@Anotherbloodyname123 You really must say no to any and all his suggestions. Where his family stay during their visit is neither your responsibility nor your problem.
Whatever proposal he comes up with say no. Not "I'll think about it".🙄

I think my answer would be along the lines of 'I've told you no, and I meant no, and I still mean no. No further negotiations or discussions will be entered into. It's up to you to sort out alternative accommodation within your budget for your family, they're not staying here.'

Because, call me very cynical, I doubt very much that once his family was here, the arrangement you reluctantly agreed to, would be the one that panned out.

If there are cultural differences, and a misunderstanding of the difference between being a lodger, and a house sharer, then perhaps you need to very clearly state the situation as it stands within this cultural and social context.

Hell just tell you he can't find anywhere and you will be stuck with them. You need got ask him to leave now because I bet you £50 he is going to rock up with them coming for a visit and they will just stay because it will be very difficult to physically eject a woman and her children without feeling like an absolute heel. And that's what he's relying on

Aargh typos. You get the gist I hope

Try the 'i said no, and if you ask again will give you 7 days notice to leave" approach OP**

Another vote for this ^

When you told him that he had to ask you first, did you mean that he should ask you about a very slightly different version of something you have already said no to?

Thought not

Being polite and quiet is good, but he really needs to learn where the boundaries are.

You should not have to put up with this extended period of bargaining. It's taking up much too much of your headspace. You deserve peace. You have an agreement.

Just say no.

Absolutely superb post, MLMsuperfan; so good, in fact, that it could do with being stickied as a "how to deal with CFs tutorial"

Sorry typed too fast! But I do like the "tomatoo now" line

Haha what was 'tomato now' supposed to be @WillLokireturn