To ask adult to move seat for toddler

[Topsecretidentity]

Family bbq. Table prepped and my 2 year old DD sits next to my seat so I put her plastic plate there. After a short while, DD gets up to play for 10 mins. We're all called to table as food ready. DB sits by me in the seat previously chosen by DD. DD gets to the table and demands her seat back from DB and according to DB gives him an "evil glare". I know DD is about to throw a tantrum so I ask DB if she can have her seat back. DB argues it's not her seat and he's not getting up for a spoilt child. Eventually he gets up after a big row.

Later he tells me that my parenting is bad and I'm pandering to DDs tantrums. I try to explain that choosing my battles when DD is about to tantrum at an adult bbq is not pandering but keeping the peace. DB says I'm defensive about my parenting and should accept my errors as I've allowed my 2 year old to develop a "tantrumming personality".

I know this is so childish but I'm upset at the criticism. Not sure if this is relevant but DB has no children and my child is his only experience of toddlers.

So question is, WIBU to ask DB to move out of the seat DD had chosen earlier? Or should I have moved DDs plate to another seat and just accepted the ensuing tantrum?

Ivana

Your children have never sounded a bit rude, without meaning to?

YABU, sorry. Your DB was right not to move in response to a demand from a child, because it’s rude to demand and the child needs to learn that sort of behaviour doesn’t result in getting what you want. If DB had moved that would be rewarding the rude demanding behaviour. You can’t pander to a child to avoid tantrums. Let them tantrum and learn that it achieves nothing. You should have told her off for being rude too!

YANBU to expect your child to sit next to you, but you could have moved along or sat her on the opposite side.

For starters PLEASE don't bandy about "ocd" in the way you have - it's clear you don't understand the condition and it's offensive and insulting. I have dx ocd, it's currently got me housebound, 4th time that's happened, 18 months so far.

Rigid black and white attitudes to certain things is normal especially at this age.

You seem somewhat obsessed yourself with trying to find a medical label for normal albeit spoilt behaviour of a 2 year old. Are you currently training as an hcp? Or in some kind of psychology course?

Quite honestly as not only a parent, an aunt and someone who's minded other people's kids for over 30 years in various capacities I think you pandered and you need to stop doing that. Yea you pick your battles but this is one that needed picking, there was a seat available next to you on the other side, she'd left the seat for long enough for it to be considered available and really it's no harm to her to have sat in the other seat. Plus her speaking to people rudely REALLY needs nipped in the bud that's completely unacceptable.

Db may currently be too extreme on the disciplinary side of things but you seem to have veered too far the other way - which is just as damaging to be honest.

Children need boundaries and to know you're in charge. It makes them feel safe and allows them to develop into secure happy people.

"But I'm not like that at home only at special public occasions" and no doubt dd has sussed that and is using it to her advantage to a degree.

Consistency is key. You'll only confuse matters if the rules at home are different to the rules elsewhere.

What you're actually avoiding is embarrassment - well your responsibility as a parent trumps any embarrassment you may feel, plus other adults especially parents will think more of you for disciplining her than they will of you if you're pandering. Your db has had the guts to say it, I doubt he's the only one thinking it.

"but keep the peace at the event. Is that pandering then?" Yes! How will she learn to behave well at such occasions if she knows you'll let her away with behaviour then that you wouldn't otherwise?

"She said to DB "that's not your chair, that's my chair- sit over there". Isn't that just how 2 year olds talk?" Wow! No! It's really not!

For that alone I'd have taken my dd (or indeed any other child I was responsible for) at that age aside and firmly told her it wasn't good or kind to talk to ANYONE like that!

Her "having a point" does NOT negate good manners!

I really do think you've gone too far to the soft side of disciplining her and need to adjust.

If anything it's more important to behave with good manners and no tantrums in company than it is in the privacy of your own home.

You need to get a handle on this ASAP or you will likely have real problems with her behaviour at such events in future.

If the other seat next to you was free, then he was reasonable to stay put. Silly, but reasonable. The real problem would be not having a 2 year old adjacent to a parent during a meal. They just need to much help and you shouldn’t gave to her up over and over again.

@CharityConundrum well it sounds as though OP is upset, her DB is upset and her dd was upset at the time, all over which seat a two year old was sitting in. It doesn’t sound like a fun way to spend an afternoon and it could have been completely avoided.

it could have been completely avoided
By OP not pandering to her child.

@Topsecretidentity

YANBU. Why does your brother's needs trump that of your small child?

If it was my brother, I would tell him to do one.

For the people who think the child is being precious and bratty, and is 'spoilt' to want her seat back; (the seat that was HERS;) would you treat an adult in the same manner?

No. Thought not. Because you would be told (quite rightly) to get your fat arse off THEIR chair!

YANBU, the child is 2 and your DB is a grown man. 2 year olds have a hundred things a day they feel passionately about, and fighting them on every single one to “teach” them not only exhausts you but it can’t be much fun for the child either.

He’s 2! Let him have his way on the small stuff and stand your ground on the big stuff.

@Myotherusernameisshy

That may be, but of all the people involved, I don't think it's the 2-year-old who has failed!

The whole situation could easily have been avoided by the brother moving when he was asked. Even if the OP is has 'spoiled' her daughter, all those people would still have been upset if she'd had a meltdown while everyone was trying to eat.

I wouldn't have sat in a seat obviously set up for a small child and would have moved without hesitating if asked politely. However, I wouldn't be at all happy at being spoken to the way your DD spoke to her uncle! I'm a bit shocked you didn't intervene and tell her to ask properly.

You’re right Charity, I’m just not expressing myself very well. I meant she will feel like she’s failed when she shouldn’t need to.

Because you would be told (quite rightly) to get your fat arse off THEIR chair!

I don't think I know a single adult who thinks they can come back to the same seat at a family bbq after 10 minutes doing something else.

However, I wouldn't be at all happy at being spoken to the way your DD spoke to her uncle!

Oh I dunno. The sooner a female learns that she is entitled to speak up for herself, and be assertive, and that men have no right to tell her what to do, the better.

This attitude that females must fall in line and be compliant and obedient is fucking bullshit.

Good for the little girl for not taking any shit. It was the child's seat, she had a right to ask for it back, and the OP should be proud of her daughter.

The brother sounds like a massive arsehole.

"Fair enough @Littlebird88 though DD is at a stage where she wants to be independent and won't sit on my lap at all"

She's two years old. You're her parent. She'll sit where you tell her to

Sure she'll tantrum but that's what kids do when they're told to do something they don't want to do.

What if she 'independently' decides she doesn't want to brush her teeth, have a bath or hold your hand while crossing a road?

First off, I probably would have told my DB "Sorry, but DS needs to sit next to me so I can help him" the minute he grabbed the chair, before hit became an issue. My DB would have moved at that.

BUT, your DD was rude (I don't care if she's two, at that age mine understood please and thank you). I would have said to her "No, DD that's not a nice way to talk. Ask Uncle nicely "I would like to sit there, please". I'll bet if she'd asked nicely, or at least said please, he would have moved.

< Massive eye roll > So it's a 'female' thing and not a tiny child doing what a parent tells it to thing?

Righto...

@LisaMontgomery

I don't think I know a single adult who thinks they can come back to the same seat at a family bbq after 10 minutes doing something else.

Don't get out much then do ya?!

And the point is, if she wanted it back, he should have shifted his arse and let her have her seat.

Or should the MAN take priority?

That misogynistic shit is not something I would teach MY daughter!

If I went to the bathroom after putting my glass of drink at the table where my seat was (and special cutlery or something like chopsticks from home) I’d be mildly annoyed that on my way back I saw someone sit in my seat.

For a toddler it would be intensified they can’t handle there emotions my lo nearly two is already shouting signs she doesn’t like strangers touching her pram, I don’t think you were wrong to ask him to move it was pretty childish for him to not make a joke and move.

If I was in a social situation like that especially if I was hosting I would definitely do the same it’s not worth having a tantruming kid when it’s a pretty simple thing.

Ok it seems split 50/50. Maybe I was wrong to let DD demand the seat back. But I'm pretty sure I would have said similar to my brother (I.e.get off my seat mate). Is it because of her age she needs to ask politely even on circumstances where an adult wouldn't? I'll accept if I'm in the wrong in this as she's very polite and emotionally intelligent when she's not been riled up so can easily be taught to ask politely regardless of the situation (i.e. she's the only toddler I know that if she bumps into someone when walking past them says " oops sorry, it was an accident/ sorry, did i hurt you?")

@Graphista thanks for your post. I too have OCD as does my mum but not to the extent that I've ever been houswbound (though it has impaired my life at certain stages in milder ways)...so perhaps I do need to educate myself more on it. I didn't mean to offend anyone sorry.

If anything it's more important to behave with good manners and no tantrums in company than it is in the privacy of your own home.

I have to disagree with this, sorry. My dad was the type of man that was a pillar of the community, on his best, smiley jokey and jovial behaviour outside but miserable at home. I promised myself as a child that, if anything, my family would get my best behaviour not the other way round. Usually how you behave at home should follow through to the outside but sometimes I get it wrong with DD and she'll misbehave at an event so I practice some more at home.

Her "having a point" does NOT negate good manners!

Fair enough. I'll accept that perhaps my DD spoke rudely.

What you're actually avoiding is embarrassment

No I am really not. I'm perfectly used to enduring DDs tantrums but my wider family are not and I'd rather not inflict it on them at what was meant to be a nice gathering.

Also like to add it’s safest that she’s next to you so that you can keep a eye on her and I assume you placed her on your dominant hand side? You are just being a smart protective parent.

Some leeway is necessary for young children in social situations like this.

What if she 'independently' decides she doesn't want to brush her teeth, have a bath or hold your hand while crossing a road?

She doesn't want to hold my hand crossing the road but in that situation I force her too as there is an element of danger. Surely not on par with forcing her to sit on my lap when there is a chair available? They naturally want to be more independent and unless there's a danger or massive inconvenience, I don't think I should curtail that.

'You were pandering to avoid a tantrum'

Hands up who has never done that because I'm not going to pretend I've never been put in that situation.

To be honest, op. Reading your post its hard to tell which one is the child him or your 2 year old. He's on about a child throwing a tantrum when he was throwing one himself, over a seat!!!

So your DB came to the table when everyone was called for food, seen the plastic plate in the seat beside you that had obviously been set out for your DD. He knows your DD is 2 and would want to be sitting beside you as at that age may still need some help with cutting up food etc. He had the option of taking the seat that was quite clearly set out for your DD or the empty seat on the other side of you. He then choose to take the seat with the plate set out for a 2 year old knowing that due to her age and personality it would probably upset her and took pleasure in refusing to move and having a dig at your parenting skills.

Yes I agree you shouldn’t pander to children all the time but to me it sounds like he went out of his way to prove a point. I don’t know of any reasonable adult that given the option of seats would go out of their way to sit in a seat quite clearly set up for a 2 year old to sit beside mum. It’s not like it was the only empty seat. Maybe it’s because he doesn’t have children he doesn’t understand but I don’t think most adults who have children wouldn't have done that in the first place.

I suppose once it was clear he wasn’t for moving then making your daughter move to the other empty seat is the way to go, even if it did result in a tantrum and most likely ruined your mood, put you off your food or took so long to deal with your food went cold.

It’s all very well for people to come on and say they would have made the child move and let them have the tantrum because they have to learn etc. I get that and it’s easier to say all that from the outside looking in but I bet there are situations we have all faced as parents where we do our best to avoid our childs triggers.

EG: my DD would have been fine moving seat in this situation but at that age she would have had a full blown tantrum if she got out the bath and had to use a towel that wasn’t one of her special towels. Given the choice I avoided the tantrum and just used the towels she liked. Not always possible and I did have to face some tantrums but I did try to avoid them when I could. Pick your battles and all that. She grew out of the fussy towel thing and I’m sure the OPs DD will outgrow the need to sit beside her mum and will get to a stage where moving to a different seat from the one she was expecting isn’t a big deal or having the wrong plate isn’t the end of the world. But at 2 they don’t quite have the logic to understand everything and can be notoriously inflexible. Yes they have to learn but it takes time and patience and sometimes it’s easier to keep the peace in a social situation so you don’t ruin everyone’s evening. The OP has said her DDs issues are around food and eating arrangements. She has said she is working on it at home but in a social situation I can 100% understand why it’s easier to go for the path of least resistance and try not to spoil the meal for everyone but having a toddler tantrum. I do think some of the replies have been a bit harsh.

It could have been completely avoided
By OP not pandering to her child.

Nope, by the adult brother not acting like a spoilt child himself.

Again, the child is 2 which kinda excuses her from having the social niceties down to a tee just yet. The OP is the mother of a 2 year old with all that entails which kinda excuses her for just wanting to enjoy one family meal in peace. The brother? Well nothing kinda excuses him for behaving like an overgrown brat.