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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - What would you have done?

793 replies

TheQueensCorgi · 30/06/2019 20:26

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

OP posts:
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6
Junowhat · 30/06/2019 21:54

He should have declined to shake all hands rather than single you out as a temptress female. Heavens it must be a hard world to navigate when a touch of a hand in a business setting may lead you to a road of sin. Ultimately who wouldn't rather be a woman than a man who is not allowed to touch a woman so maybe, OP you will find a way to see him as one to be sympathetic towards rather than a totally repressed, spirit-believing eijet..

YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/06/2019 21:54

It's not his "issue"- it's his faith

It’s his issue. If his faith means discriminating against women in a country in which this is offensive he should compensate, not the OP.

I’ve had this happen to me btw. The man was Jewish, not Islamic.

HellYeah90s · 30/06/2019 21:55

@SchadenfreudePersonified we given a handshake in the UK is the standard greeting for both men and women, he should be used to it and get over himself

mumwon · 30/06/2019 21:56

its shaking hands fgs not running away from you or talking down to you or punching you in the face - he is young & unsure & not tactful maybe but to go on & on about this - are there worse things - yes men looking down your dress, putting their hands on your rear & "being friendly" pestering you for a drink/date/kiss & not taking "no" for an answer - many women on mumsnet, older women in particular, could tell you some stories that make you understand what a real insult is - & how men at work can make your life hell or make you feel small just because your female - he tried to explain why -he was probably embarrassed you know - why he could shake hands give him a little allowance - please

NoSquirrels · 30/06/2019 21:57

What I would do would depend on whether the guy worked for my company or was a client.

Undoubtedly the onus of this lies with him to figure out how to negotiate this professionally. I agree that if he can’t shake hands with a woman he should avoid shaking hands at all in his career life in order not to offend. He’s young, and so he needs to know this could be seen as very unprofessional and rude.

So, if he worked for my company I’d have a very neutral chat about how it was awkward and how could the situation be avoided. Then hopefully they’d feedback.

If he was a client I’d accept it was unfortunate but not something I could affect and just change my behaviour next time and not expect or offer my hand.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 30/06/2019 21:58

I really don’t see why you care that he won’t shake your hand/touch you Confused He explained that his cultural practice meant he wouldn’t participate in your cultural practice ie it wasn’t personal. Why do you need to touch him?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/06/2019 21:58

His choice about how he externalises his religious beliefs should not trump your right to be treated equally. This is misogyny

Well said. Can’t believe the apologists here.

NoSquirrels · 30/06/2019 21:59

So, if he worked for my company I’d have a very neutral chat about how it was awkward and how could the situation be avoided. Then hopefully they’d feedback

This should say a chat with HR. I wouldn’t mention it to him myself.

I think it is important if he works for the company this is feedback to him because especially in engineering or another Male-dominated sphere he might not have a lot if opportunity to figure out it’s rude if he doesn’t work with many women regularly.

avalanching · 30/06/2019 21:59

@mumwon what logic is that? In both of those scenarios the woman is being treated as a sex object, defined by her vagina alone. It makes no odds that one is trying to fuck her and the other is undermining her professionalism.

Hooferdoofer37 · 30/06/2019 21:59

@sheepysheep I would have been tempted to stick out my hand for a shake at every opportunity & say "it's fine, I'm not mentrating" VERY loudly.

BustedDreams · 30/06/2019 22:00

YANBU however, remember his actions are about him and his beliefs and not a reflection of your character or nature. He was rude nonetheless!

Withington · 30/06/2019 22:02

I cannot believe that anyone on this thread, in the 21st century, is saying it's okay to not shake hands with someone "because beliefs". What's the line by the way? If not shaking hands is fine, what about refusing to have a female manager? Take directions from a woman as line manager/boss?

ToPlanZ · 30/06/2019 22:03

YANBU

Just because he chooses to believe in something that probably doesn't exist, it doesn't give him the right to discriminate against you based on your sex. If he can't keep his personal choices from affecting his professional behaviour then he simply shouldn't be in the workplace.

It's all very well being liberal and saying oh live and let live but where does it end? Does it get to the point where any behaviour is excused because oh well that's what that person believes in'?

Unfortunately the very nature of liberalism does tend to lend to this approach. However to protect ideals like equality someone needs to stand up and say, do you know what, refusing to touch a woman's hand in a professional setting is wrong. It's wrong because it impacts on that woman, it suggests that her hand and her body are in some way tainted or morally different to a man's body, which is not acceptable in this society. Women fought and died here to not be treated like untouchables.

The rights of actual living working women should ALWAYS trump those of someone who arbitrarily decides that his patriarchal sky dwelling entity says he get treat women as people of lesser value.

TheInebriati · 30/06/2019 22:04

Yanbu. A man who cannot shake hands with a woman should not shake hands with anyone.

viques · 30/06/2019 22:05

devondumpling

The content of his interview was not discussed. His behaviour was.
I asked if he got the job, and she said he scored weakly.

SpinsterOfArts · 30/06/2019 22:06

I wouldn't be bothered by this, but only because I know quite a few women who won't shake hands with men for religious reasons either, so it doesn't seem particularly odd to me.

I was annoyed when I went on holiday to a majority-Muslim country and several men ignored me and spoke to my younger brother (aged 15, didn't look any older) instead. I'd say something and they'd reply to him as if he'd said it. It was bizarre. So I understand you being disconcerted by the handshake thing if it isn't something you've encountered before.

Dutchesss · 30/06/2019 22:06

Different religions have different rules. While I don't agree with it, if you think about it deeper we would probably hold some of the same values ourselves.
For example if colleagues went away on a work trip women would not be expected to share a hotel with men. Likewise we do not share toilets with men. It's not about women being second class, it's about privacy and respect.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 30/06/2019 22:06

Some women don’t touch men either. It’s no different than separate changing rooms for men and women, just the lines drawn at a different level of intimacy.

Bandara · 30/06/2019 22:06

It is not due to you being lesser. It is due to him not wanting to touch women. You should be respectful. Why should he have to touch anyone that he doesnt want to. The handshake is very particular to England , it is not used in many other countries. Why force your culture on him?

SpitefulBreasts · 30/06/2019 22:08

It has fuck all to do with religious beliefs, it's misogyny clear and simple. It's an easy quick fix for misogynistic men to refuse to interact with women.
If their defence is 'it's against my religion' then they're misogynistic. It doesn't matter if their chosen fairytale is Christianity, Orthodox Judaism, Muslim or any other fairytale. Whoever they believe in they don't like and they distrust Women. To say women are unclean is revolting. Utterly revolting

Bandara · 30/06/2019 22:09

@Withington why should anyone be made to touch someone that they don't want to. Again - a handshake is part of british culture, it is not used at all in alot of other cultures. I can understand that it would make some people uncomfortable

viques · 30/06/2019 22:09

And the not handshaking was not the thing that worried her as much as the refusal to acknowledge her presence in the interview. As I said, it was a role that would involve face to face discussion on site so communication and empathy part of the role.

Bandara · 30/06/2019 22:10

@SpitefulBreasts so you are saying that somebody should be forced to touch someone?

YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/06/2019 22:10

It is not due to you being lesser. It is due to him not wanting to touch women. You should be respectful. Why should he have to touch anyone that he doesnt want to

If he is willing to shake hands with men and not women, he should not shake hands with anyone. Why should the OP be respectful of his deeply sexist prejudices?

Orangeballon · 30/06/2019 22:10

Some religions feel that women are dirty, particularly when on their monthly cycle. This is not acceptable in this day and age and you should make an official complaint.