AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

@omione my sentiments exactly

It doesn't sound like he handled it very well but then he might be sensitive to the reactions he gets.

If he had smiled and said it in a more friendly way "I can't shake hands with you because of my religious beliefs, but I'm very pleased to have met you" and offered a polite nod/head bow instead, would that have made you feel better? Would you still have felt offended and 'lesser'?

But I believe men and women are equal and therefore should be treated the same regardless of sex. But because there isn’t a rule in my religion (Christian), I cannot express that it is rude?

If he cannot touch a woman due to religious beliefs then he should demonstrate a no rule, not shaking hands with all means everyone is equal.

I’ve read this thread before.

Yes I think if he had explained himself it may have been easier, or said ‘sorry I cannot shake hands with woman’. But he said ‘I don’t’ as if it was a choice not to.

@UrsulaPandress any idea when? I would be interested to know if a previous thread had the same feelings?

Agree, it sounds like he was a bit blunt in his delivery.

I’m a teacher and once tried to shake hands with a parent- he very nicely put both his hands together fingertips touching, bowed his head slightly and smiled while saying ‘it was very nice to meet you’. I didn’t feel at all offended by that.

I dont shake hands with men for the same reason.

Yes i have known women who won't shake hands with men, so it can work both way.

I don't like to kiss men on both cheeks but happy to kiss women.

OP, admit it - if someone was complaining that one of your religious practices made them feel discriminated against, you would still want your right to engage in that practice to be respected.

Most of my family are Muslim and I’ve never come across this particular belief. Shit like this is SO harmful - religion or no religion. If you don’t want to shake hands with women, don’t shake hands with anyone in a professional context like that. Appalling. YANBU!

I'm fairly easygoing but I actually would be quite upset by this. It's discriminating against women. Why is that trumped by religious beliefs? It would be easy to treat men and women the same - simply don't shake hands with anyone, say you use a different greeting. Problem solved. But no, men get the handshake and women get nothing.

I’ve also read an extremely similar thread before.

I know dozens of Muslims and they don’t abide by this rule. I’d never heard of it until I read the other thread about it on Mumsnet.

However, I’m Christian and in all honesty the thought would not have crossed my mind for a second that I was being treated as a second class citizen. I’d see it more as a mark of respect. It’s against his personal beliefs to touch women who he is not married to. I agree tone is very important so if he said it with arrogance or disrespectfully then I would be upset at his demeanour. However, I’d respect that his religious ideology prevents him from shaking hands with women. My own religion doesn’t say “thou must shake hands with men” so that point (that Islam is somehow more respected in the workplace than Christianity) doesn’t apply!

I’ve had to endure the handshake that turns into a sharp pull and a slobbery kiss of the cheek on loads of occasions by men. I’d be quite happy if I didn’t have to shake men’s hands in future!

@VivienneHolt no one knows I am a practicing Christian, it has no place in my work space. I do not talk about it, I wear my cross at weekends and I attend church on Sundays. I pray, but I have never in 25 years at this company ever spoken about my beliefs. Why would I? They have nothing to do with engineering and what I believe should not be put into others.

Pffffffft.

I dont respect that 'religious ideology' in the least.

The man would of felt very rude to shake your hand or look you in the eye, he wasn’t being unkind in his mind he was being respectful towards you. It’s just two very different views and opinions nobody was right or wrong.

In theory I think you should speak to your work/boss/HR and they should decide whether everyone needs to shake hands with everyone, or whether hand shaking should be discouraged (as in PP above's workplace) because it doesn't fit with everyone's religious beliefs.

In reality tbh I'd just leave it.

YABU to feel anything other than that he is a second class citizen for allowing his religion to make him discriminate against other humans. Personally I’d be a bit bemused but ultimately feel sorry for him.

YANBU, he shouldn't shake hands with anyone rather than singling out a woman, it's offensive and discriminatory. I've somehow never had it happen at work* despite working with many men of different faiths, but I would complain to HR and be clear that there are ways for him to not discriminate. Whether they actually do anything about it is unlikely, but you can only try.

*I have had men stand up and very obviously move away from me on the bus or the train a couple of times, which is also mildly offensive, but as long as they only inconvenience themselves there's no justification for making a scene.

I often work with people who don't shake hands with the opposite sex - Orthodox Jews tend to just say to apologise and say that they don't, whereas lots of Muslim men have different actions they'll perform instead - put their hand on their heart and then also to their head (a bit like how men used to touch their hats, only put their hand to their heart, do a namaste, bow their heads, do a half bow with their hands behind them... The list goes on.

I'm used to it (been happening 25 years now) so if I don't proffer my hand now until someone extends their's.

It's always an interesting conundrum when two protected characteristics collide in this country: I suspect, as you said that he's very young, he will learn to handle it more graciously. But I think, in this instance, his right to his religion trumps your right to be treated the same as a man.

I'm always surprised that HCP can wear hijab, but ties and sleeves are seen as infection control risks - a different issue, but also pertinent as it's an expression of an individual's religious beliefs.

As a slight aside, I do know one very learned and important Islamic scholar, not in the UK, who will shake hands with western women, on the grounds that they cannot be expected to know, and it would be a greater sin, in his interpretation, to make someone feel uncomfortable over their "ignorance" (not pejorative ignorance, just the state of unknowingness).

islamfyi.princeton.edu/why-do-some-muslims-refrain-from-shaking-hands-with-people-of-the-opposite-gender/

It's VERY rude. He shouldn't have shaken hands with anyone. In a work environment, it's very clear it's rude to ignore one person, and he knows it. Religious beliefs are no excuse for rudeness.

I really abhor the the 'oh, it's his religion and therefore it's alright' attitude to this kind of behaviour.

He treated you differently because you were a woman. he would have shaken hands with a male colleague. I would probably complain or bring it up. totally unacceptable in this day and age in a professional setting.

I think that in the workplace there should be a policy, where if someone cannot shake hands with a female colleague then they should make it a policy not to shake hands with any colleagues - then there can be no discrimination.

I have lived in a Muslim majority country where men and women would always shake hands on greeting each other everywhere - not just in a work setting.

However, a woman I knew from that country went to work in an emirate and when I met her some years later at a restaurant she refused to shake hands with men in the group. I was very surprised by this and it was new behaviour from her. I wonder therefore if this is a phenomenon that is becoming more common.

I've read this thread before

So have I