AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

I think he behaved perfectly reasonably.

I think I (and anyone else) should reserve the right to refuse to touch anyone that I don't want to touch, regardless of reason. Why do people feel they must have access to my hand because someone else did, whether or not I want?

Oh and 'equal' doesn't mean 'the same'. Seeing people as equal can't mean that you would treat them exactly the same as we are all different.

The man doesn't shake women's hands. You say, 'fair enough' and move on. He was courteous enough to give you a reason. YABU.

My dd interviewed a candidate for a local government public facing role that would have involved contact with clients, meetings in their houses etc. Candidate declined to shake her hand, and moreover addressed ALL his interview responses to her (male) colleague even though it was clear my DD was the lead interviewer. Luckily he was by far the weakest candidate so she had no qualms about him not getting the job, but she would have been very uncomfortable in employing someone who obviously found speaking to women so very difficult, especially in the role that was on offer.

Would it have been rude if he chose not to eat the ham sandwiches or join his colleagues in the bar after the meeting? You have to accept that religions have stupid rules and some religions and cultures are frankly sexist.

I'm surprised you were unaware that this is a fairly standard belief for some people.

It’s not saying oh ur just a woman so I can’t acknowledge you the same as the menfolk, it’s saying - you’re a woman I am not related or married to and therefore it’s inappropriate for me to touch you.

Thank you Grumpos

I was eating to say this, but couldn't think of how to word it.

I suppose it could go back to the ancient and unpleasant idea that a woman is the property of her father/ brother/ husband - but how is that any different to someone's father giving them away at their wedding, and this still happens very often, even though it may only be symbolic.

Your company should have some kind of policy on this to avoid women feeling like second class citizens due to someone's religious beliefs.
It's totally unacceptable imo. Discriminatory, sexist, belittling and bloody rude.

^This.

*wanting, not eating

Hell's bells - fat fingers!

cabbage - OP is allowing herself to feel like a second-class citizen. She is chasing to be upset by it.

She could - and in my opinion should - just think "Ok - fair enough." She could mentally add "Plonker" if she wants to - no-one will know.

TBH, I wouldn't have given this a second thought except perhaps to think "How archaic".

think in this case it was his presumably sincerely held religious belief which has to be prioritised.

Why should HIS religious view be prioritised over the IP’s Equality Virw? Oh that’s right, because she’s a woman. Clearly she should be the one to suck it up and allow HIM priority

You could have just said ‘trust me shaking yoyr damo hand isn’t going to overwhelm me with lust, you’re safe’

I have NO time for this utter nonsense

Just wanted to add in that this isn't a one sided thing in Islam- some Muslim men don't shake hands with women, yes, but also some Muslim women don't shake hands with men for the exact same reason. It's to avoid attraction/ connotations of attraction

To all those saying that the op should respect his views, would you respect a Fundamentalist Christian saying that being same sex attracted is deviant and disgusting, would you respect their views? Would you think well that's what they believe so it's ok?
He wouldn't shake the OP's hand because she, as a Female is an inferior person.
There is no proof that there is a God or an Allah or any other higher power.
Any religious belief that insists that non believers and Women are inferior people has no place in this world.
So op in my book, he was extremely rude and you are definitely not being unreasonable

Don't we all have a right to say who can and who can't touch us? I don't like cheek kissing but I had a boss who did it to women, I always stepped back. Did he think I was rude, tough if he did.

I was once told by a father of a, presumably, similar persuasion that his son couldn't be in my class as he couldn't take instructions from a woman! He was told that his son would then go into a lower set, I had Set 1, but he wouldn't then be able to take the higher level of eam the top grades. This apparently was racial prejudice!! We need to stop pandering.

I just realised that UmmH already explained what I just said (and much better than me!)

I would have eye rolled as loudly as could. I may have even snuck a little tut in. But I don't have much tolerance for things like that, I don't care that it's a "religious" thing.

His choice about how he externalises his religious beliefs should not trump your right to be treated equally. This is misogyny.

My dd interviewed a candidate for a local government public facing role that would have involved contact with clients, meetings in their houses etc. Candidate declined to shake her hand, and moreover addressed ALL his interview responses to her (male) colleague even though it was clear my DD was the lead interviewer. Luckily he was by far the weakest candidate so she had no qualms about him not getting the job, but she would have been very uncomfortable in employing someone who obviously found speaking to women so very difficult, especially in the role that was on offer

Is she always so unprofessional? How would you feel if you were interviewed for a job and your performance was discussed with the interviewers family?

Why on Earth are people saying he didn't shake her hand because he thinks females are inferior??! It's simply because she's of the opposite sex.

I'm out, this is fast turning into a typical islamaphobic thread.

I think people who want to behave in exclusionary ways need to take the consequences of those restrictions. You can't be a wine taster if you are teetotal. Similarly, he works in a mixed sex environment in a country with equality legislation. Either he accepts that reality and treats everyone equally or he finds works in an environment where it doesn't offend anyone. His choice. The OP should not be have to put up with this and her employer should make it clear that they do not put up with it either.

lots of Muslim men have different actions they'll perform instead - put their hand on their heart and then also to their head (a bit like how men used to touch their hats, only put their hand to their heart, do a namaste, bow their heads, do a half bow with their hands behind them...

Same experience here, and I do the same back. I prefer the ‘hand on heart with a nod’ to handshakes if I’m honest!

I think this guy’s entitled to his beliefs, AND he was rude not to offer you a different gesture. I’d bring the subject up, but in terms of suggesting he needs training over handshake equivalents that don’t involve touching. Again, he’s entitled to his beliefs, but he’s not entitled to make respectful gestures to men while offering women nothing and just walking away.

It wouldn’t bother me if it was for religious reasons. It also does depend on his tone and manner when he said it. If he was snappy and disgusted I’d be judging him as not a nice person. If he was polite and just said why, I’d be completely fine and it wouldn’t bother me one bit

If he treats you differently at work in other ways e.g. talks down at you or refuses to talk to you then that could make working with him quite unpleasant. If the handshake is just an isolated thing and he’s otherwise pleasant and nice to you and his religion doesn’t cause a lot of disruption to you working together, I would just shrug it off.

higher level of exam to earn the top grades, is what I meant.

I felt like a second class citizen.

You are in his eyes.

However, I used to work in a very conservative Muslim country (most women were covered) and the men ALL shook hands with women at the beginning of meetings. So there is nothing in the religious texts banning it.

I once went to Israel on business and spent the whole two days of the trip being ignored - no handshakes, no eye contact, wasn’t spoken to at all (luckily my male colleague was with me or I’m not sure how anything would have got done). It turns out that the men we were meeting were strict Orthodox Jews. The thing is - having asked someone since - they won’t touch or interact with non-wife women of breeding age in case we are menstruating, which they call “unclean”. It’s not about potential attraction or respect for us, it’s entirely about them. It made me feel like a grubby inconvenience. Religion or not it was incredibly rude. Luckily my boss agreed. We turned down their business proposition and didn’t pursue the working relationship.

@Genevieva yes, this, absolutely.