AIBU - What would you have done?

[TheQueensCorgi]

Name changed. Meeting at work (large company, very big on rights for all) and at the end we shook hands with others. I was the only woman in the room and when I got to a man (not white), I put out my hand and he said ‘Sorry I don’t shake hands with women’, and walked off.

I kind of stood there not really knowing what to do next, a few of the men who had overheard still in the room said he never shakes hands for religious reasons.

What would you have done? Would you brush this off? I felt like a second class citizen and quite embarrassed. Should I just be accepting of the fact this was his view or do I have the right to be annoyed ?

The face means I a sceptical about the intent and content of your statement.

I don’t think anyone was or should be embarrassed.

What is “respect based on your sex”?

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis I wasn't embarrassed, just unsure as to what you meant. And I think it's clear that I mean most organised religions - and in particular Islam, the faith I was raised in has roots steeped in misogyny and sexism. I don't think people should have a free pass to be sexist just because they're from a particular religion which seems to demonise women for simply existing.

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis and it is embarrassing when people use their religion as an excuse to be sexist. The man should be ashamed of himself for not showing basic decency.

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis To be honest, this entire thread has been an eye opener in terms of how horrible people can be. I'm really shocked though I shouldn't be. Under guise of screen nick names, or people who have power/ money/ influence, you get the truth just how horrible this world can be. It really impacts my mental health to be honest because I struggle to cope with it.

@TheQueensCorgi Well after your update, it is clear he does it for religious reasons but is a dick about it. Now he isn't being fair at all. If he wasn't aware or he was embarrassed or whatever and it was brought to his attention, he should have had some grace. Not begrudgingly agreeing because he has to. He should want to find a good solution for everyone that is fair, inclusive and respectful. He has done that only begrudgingly. He's an arse. By the info given at least. So I would do as you say and give bare minimum civility, avoid him where you can, and certainly don't shake his hand. You shouldn't have to feel that way from anyone, from any religion, male or female. So its a shame, he had disgraced his culture.

I actually don’t like the solution at all. I think it would probably be better handled by HR than with these weird personal solutions. Is he allowed to shake hands if there are no women present? Will he be disciplined for shaking hands if caught doing so? What is the expectation if a client wants to shake his hand? He can’t say it’s because of my religion, because it isn’t. Is he supposed to lie, or explain his company has banned him from shaking hands. If I was him I’d want to leave, which makes me think it’s probably not a great solution.

And I think it's clear that I mean most organised religions - and in particular Islam, the faith I was raised in has roots steeped in misogyny and sexism. well as does most of history, it’s not unique to Islam, or even religion.

@mamimogo - Another one for your viewing pleasure @Isthisafreename**

Thanks but no thanks

@TheQueensCorgi - I am not going to take this any further, at the end of the day I know that his right to religious respect will always trump my right to respect based on my sex.

His right to religion should never trump your rights based on sex and vice-versa. Unfortunately, in the society we live in, women are usually at the bottom of the pile when it comes to rights.

He agreed to do so but under some duress as could not see the issue or why I was offended.

Which suggests he is an asshole who doesn't respect women, regardless of his religion.

I am not going to take this any further, at the end of the day I know that his right to religious respect will always trump my right to respect based on my sex. *

@TheQueensCorgi How so? You just said he's been banned from shaking hands with anyone because his religion prohibits him to shake hands with a woman he is not married or related to. That's hardly an example of his religious rights trumping anything. I'd imagine that's a worse case scenario for him.

Unless it was his job you were after? @TheQueensCorgi I mean, what more could you want?

He agreed to do so but under some duress as could not see the issue or why I was offended.

Which just demonstrates that he has the interpersonal skills of a house brick. If I was told I had caused offence in a meeting I would be looking to apologise and avoid causing that offence again.

He agreed to do so but under some duress as could not see the issue or why I was offended.
As reported by the colleague who had a quiet word to “fix” things for OP. Don’t do it like that! Deal with it directly.

He’s in the U.K. it’s a U.K. custom. Shake hands or get out

what if his home is here?

He’s in the U.K. it’s a U.K. custom. Shake hands or get out

What a stupid thing to say.

Nobody should be forced to shake anyone's hand for any reason.
Let alone be kicked out of a country for it. FFS

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis I did state most religions were inherently sexist, and of course it extends into everyday life and not just religion. But growing up in this faith, I can see most men who are Muslim are more brazen and think they can get away with awful acts upon women in their Prophet and God's name. It's a free pass for them. I don't feel any religion has place in modern day life.

And religion certainly has no place in a place of work. If your religion interferes with your ability to work with your colleagues in a respectful manner, then maybe it's time to think of a career change.

So your new religion is really know more inclusive than your old, now “work practices” are the only way.

That is not what yisk said. I believe you are wilfully misinterpreting her rational and measured posts into some kind of work dogma.

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis is the man refusing to shake hands with a woman purely because she's a woman being inclusive? Is disrespect to be accepted by men because they happen to be from a different religion and you're afraid to offend someone even though these men aren't afraid to offend any women?
No man will treat me like dirt and be able to hide behind his religion whilst doing so.

@Lifepanic1234 thank you. Some western women are so quick to throw other women under the bus, when my cousins in Iran are literally dicing with death just to walk out of the house without their hair covered. Something we are able to take for granted.

@Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis
Good point I didn't spot this. Why wasn't it handled by hr? I can see him appearing to begrudgingly accept that he has to find a solution, but if that conversation came from a colleague and not hr, I could see why he might be a bit annoyed that others are being dragged into his business, his culture, rather than hr which is much more private and professional. It's just getting silly. Let hr do their job. Which is to protect your rights and his, in a fair, confidential and professional manner.

@yiskasha That's really sad to hear and I'm really sorry for your family. I just had a look online and there are female protests beginning, opposing the hijab and the other head coverings (I'm sorry I only know hijab because I'm going to Tunisia tomorrow and I bought myself and my fiances family some, I like them but of course it's my choice; being forced to wear them is very different). Anyway the women's movement is gaining momentum against the forcing of headwear, and males are beginning to back them up. One male who was interviewed said something along the lines of he wants his daughter/s to have a choice, he doesn't want them forced in any way to do something that they are uncomfortable with. It's a small start and not much comfort right now, but a start has to come somewhere and it's a start nonetheless.

For me personally, I am English white, none religious. My fiance is Tunisian culturally, and though his family is Muslim (not strict but they do follow the religion) my fiance isn't. I have always been insecure about my hair and since planning for our visit to his family, I started to want the hijab. I began to think how lovely it would feel to be able to not worry about expensive extensions all the time, or feel insecure about my hair. I also bought traditional dresses that cover predominantly top to toe because I think they are beautiful. And again it solves another problem of mine, which is being stared at by men all the time. I hate being ogled, especially since I had been in an abusive relationship which involved rape. So since that relationship, when I get ogled I feel exposed and it makes me feel horrible. So I'm considering making the choice to continue wearing these garments after our visit to Tunisia. However, the important word here is choice. If I was forced to wear things, even if I liked them, and if I don't wear them I run high risks of public shunning, beatings or imprisonment (or worse in some places). Well I can't even imagine how that would feel. I won't even try, since it would be disingenuous, coming from a western culture. And I'm very sorry for all of these women, and I'm sorry for your family too. Choice is the key point. Many women like the head wear and clothes, but they make the choice and women bash them for it. Yet we have women forced to wear them and being bashed if they don't. It's so very sad.