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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Hoarding and moving house

242 replies

Itsreallyallovernow · 30/06/2019 06:01

Close friend is moving in a few weeks to a smaller property (about 2/3 -1/2 size of current home) for personal reasons but also partly financial. The date of move cannot apparently be changed.

Friend is a chronic hoarder. By which I mean that certain rooms in their home basically can't be accessed, even in the accessible rooms there is almost no clear floor space. Some of this is rubbish (friend will not throw away papers/ paperwork so there are boxes and bags full of newspapers, receipts, leaflets, etc) plus bags and bags and bags of clothes...maybe 30+ bags of clothes just in the hallway. Every doorway is used as hanging space. Every cupboard is jammed full.

Two of us have spent 3 days between us helping friend get rid of rubbish and recycling . This is now almost complete aside from the aforementioned papers.

However we haven't made any impression on any of the other stuff. There is no room to pack any of it and the reality (which friend hasn't faced up to) is that there simply isn't room for it in the new property. New housing situation is like a shared home so friend will not be able to live as they do now.

I honestly can't see a way forward. Fellow helper is away with work for next few weeks so can't assist. I have a ft job and my own home and family, I can give 1 day a weekend at personal cost but that's it.

There is no one else friend will allow to help. Friend is also balking at paying £300 for removals (I think this is an underestimate tbh) because of the expense, ditto putting anything in storage. I have taken about 15 big bags of clothes and other items to my house but this has simply reduced the piles from ceiling height to about 4ft. And I dont want my house overtaken by stuff either! I have said I will not be driving a van for the removals but I think this is what friend expects, not necessarily I do it but one of us does. Friend doesn't drive.

I am at a loss tbh. I can't help anymore than I already am and am frustrated by friend. I don't think they get that they have to reduce their stuff so drastically.

AIBU about it? And what if anything do I do?

OP posts:
Thismonkeysgonetodevon · 30/06/2019 19:01

organised Most of us posting on here who have had experiences with hoarders haven’t got any professional qualifications on mental health behaviour of hoarders and have admitted to not knowing how to deal with it professionally. Most of us likely started off kind, willing to help and patient, and when that didn’t work slowly became more exasperated and irritated before finally accepting that this deep seated psychological problem was too big for us and walked away for our own sanity - which is what we have suggested the Op does.

“Nasty” “judgemental” and “othering” or just coming onto an anonymous forum to have a rant about an extremely upsetting situation?

I’ve actually found it quite cathartic reading other experiences and finding a bit of humour in a desperately sad situation. I’m finding it difficult to move on from my dad’s behaviour and doubt our relationship will ever recover. I would love for him to one day turn around and recognise that his stuff is not as important as his family but I doubt it will happen. He seems quite proud of all his shit to be honest.

I have actually tried to be incredibly un-judgemental over the years. However, as I stated earlier, when you see the effects this person’s hoarding/mental health issues has on the health of others that you love and when that person screams at you and treats you with utter contempt when you are trying to help, your own self defence mechanism has to kick in at some point for your own mental health - and you are permitted to feel fucked off with them for what they put you through.

It doesn’t matter what help is out there. If someone doesn’t recognise they have a problem they won’t try to seek it.

RosaWaiting · 30/06/2019 19:05

Thismonkey excellent username!

" He seems quite proud of all his shit to be honest."

Yes. My friend was quite proud of all her stuff.

another20 · 30/06/2019 19:10

It sounds like some of the advice on addiction might be helpful to the families of hoarders - you didn’t cause it, can’t control it and can’t cure. “Detaching with love” to preserve your own sanity (and to inadvertently stop enabling) when someone is not able or ready to engage in treatment for change seems appropriate also.

FrancisCrawford · 30/06/2019 19:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2strands · 30/06/2019 19:30

£300 for removal is unrealistic. Try closer to £900-£1000

BryanAdamsLeftAnkle · 30/06/2019 19:31

When my depression was bad I didn't see mess. Genuinely didn't see it.

I found that if I took a photograph I saw it differently. Very differently and could actually see the hell I called home.

eddielizzard · 30/06/2019 19:39

I agree you have to set a limit on your help, and make it clear what that limit is. I love the idea of taking photos and showing her as tho they were someone else's house, and seeing if that brought it home. Otherwise, I think you can't do anymore. It is an illness that does need treatment, but she has to recognise that she needs help.

PeoniesarePink · 30/06/2019 19:53

My late stepmother was a hoarder. She had tea chests full of expensive things she'd bought for when she and my dad had their dream home......... saddest part was there was no money for the dream home, because she was overspending on utter crap to put in it. They sold their home and rented until they found the right place, so when she fell ill and died, Dad had absolutely nothing to fall back on. It broke my bloody heart emptying those tea chests.

I do agree it's an illness and one that is all too easy to enable, albeit with the best of intentions. I'd set yourself a personal limit on what you are able to do for her - and stick strictly to it. That way you're not turning your back but you're protecting your own sanity Flowers

Itsreallyallovernow · 30/06/2019 20:18

I am going to help her 1 more day to pack her boxes for her house share. Or to make a start. Friend she is housesharing with has agreed to take some of those boxes to the house next weekend to give her more space (to pack the remainder for storage). I might give her another days help after that but ONLY if I feel she's actually committed to it. I'm not having another day of running up and down stairs with rubbish while she picks up crumbs off the floor or sorts recycling into 10 different bags.

OP posts:
TitianaTitsling · 30/06/2019 20:24

organised l feel your opinion that much of SS, NHS, FB, have little idea/desire how to help the person is a completely rude and shitty opinion. Am assuming you've never worked in a statutory role from that viewpoint, therefore are maybe not aware that there are no powers to force someone to engage in decluttering, and when we are in a time when there are no resources to support actively suicidal people there's no resources for someone to sit and pick through thousands of items of hoarding, which is why services like yours which l assume are private and chargeable exist.

another20 · 30/06/2019 20:52

BryanAdams that’s a really good insight about “seeing” it through photos. Maybe if the OP shared the “hoarding scale” photos of each room that PP posted earlier with her friend she might be able to “see it”, see where she is and set a goal?

We had a major issue with MIL. It was alcoholic squalor more than hoarding I think - as in she wasn’t buying anything - just leaving everything out, not tidying up or throwing anything away. She wouldn’t let anyone in to help clean until she had got on top of it - never did - BUT one day things were so bad that we took her along to view a luxury new fully furnished rental apartment. She left her shit hole home the next week with just a couple of suitcases and never looked back. On reflection she was keen to escape. She didn’t keep the flat brilliantly clean but with a cleaner and us being on top of it it was fine. We just gutted her old house (used professional house clearance company) and sold it.

So maybe if your friend just went with a couple of bags with the intention of a fresh start it would be easier for her than enduring the decluttering decisions - which she clearly can do. She would need to hand everything over to a house clearance company.

I also wonder how she will cope in a house share? I assume she lives alone currently?

Thismonkeysgonetodevon · 30/06/2019 21:28

another20 very good suggestion re addiction advice for families of hoarders.

Ticklingcheese · 30/06/2019 22:38

I know this is too little, too late. But from what I have heard CBT should be helpfull to some hoarders. Perhaps this could be a way forward at some point.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/06/2019 23:11

The landlord is coming round in a few days. Other friend who she will be house sharing with is aware and is also going to see her this week

If neither of these people have seen the reality for themselves, I suggest you prepare for fireworks with your friend; she'll feel backed into a corner, and frankly I can't see it ending well

Hopefully that will be the point when you'll feel able to step back and think of your own family instead. Certainly support her in getting help, but beyond that I very much doubt there's more you can do

Organisedclutter · 01/07/2019 00:17

I perhaps shouldn't have posted. My intention was to add weight to the 'this isn't your issue to fix' posters, and warn that reporting to statutory services is unlikely to make anything better.
Also that loading stigma onto an already stigmatized M/H condition isn't helpful, and causes more misery and stores up future problems for many, including those who care about them.

MummyMeister IMO sometimes what you have to do is weigh up a situation and realise if you can't help (which is beyond understandable) maybe you have to accept stepping back, and not trying to now control the other person's life, beyond pointing out where things are going and where your line is drawn, and if you are a friend, helping pick up the pieces wherever they fall.
IMO deciding if someone else's issues should be interfered in because you can't help, should only happen if a vulnerable person is at risk and reporting would help make it better. Then it's a responsibility. However the description given here is of someone competent, but unrealistic and in denial.

Most hoarders are reported because someone is trusted to help, then gets frustrated or angry when they can't, but decides the person with the issue is now their responsibility for letting them in on the situation and reports them, often making the situation worse. The hardest thing can be to do nothing.

It's one of the big reasons people with the disorder often keep all their friends and family away, and wont ask for help or trust others to come in.

Thismonkeysgonetodevon I'm not referring to the op when talking about unpleasant comments and othering of people with hoarding disorder. There's cathartic humor and then there's just stereotyping.
I did make it clear I had personal experience of being on the other end of extreme hoarding. My parent was forced to choose, and eventually choose a roof over their mainly destroyed, contaminated possessions and filth, leaving me to be taken away, which freed up a tiny bit of space, at huge cost. I have a very dark sense of humor about some of it, but doubt it would be shareable here, or thought funny.
Ultimately parent lost everything including their life, and mine was damaged both by no real relationship, their illness, having to address what they left behind, and what happened to me afterwards.

Titania, I have worked alongside and at one point for, statutory services, which is what's lead me to form those opinions. It's because there's no power to enforce decluttering, but other powers can be used, that the response has quite often been to make or aid making the person homeless, despite knowing housing services will declare them intentionally homeless.
I've twice had to give evidence at coroners court as a result of that decision.
No I don't run a private service or charge, and have a low view of those charging extortionate fees to people in distress.
I volunteer with one of the few social practice services, and receive traveling and cleaning materials costs only, with a very different business that I make my living from.
As with others in the same line, I give time and energy because I've (some) insight into the condition, some empathy for those suffering it, and a practical response to dealing with filth and how people can feel about being judged for having lived in, or created it, and don't get angry or frustrated by people suffering from the condition. It's one of the few positives of growing up in it.

My user name's from the legacy that I have to have organisation and cleanliness in my own home for my sanity, not from any work I do.

Blondebakingmumma · 01/07/2019 02:38

I know a hoarder isn’t going to change habits without self awareness and therapy, but the issue right now is moving. Maybe she can address mental health issues once she’s in her new place.

Maybe the new house mate can be very clear about how much stuff can fit.
For example the three of you can stand in the kitchen and she can say- I have all the basic cooking equipment and plates. You can bring 2 mugs, one fry pan, two plates and three tea towels. To be honest if it is just a few things that will fit into her already furnished kitchen the friend could take those few items on that visit and when she has left the hoarder will know that whatever remains in the kitchen will either have to go into storage, donated or the bin.

The new housemate can repeat with the other communal areas too. Will they share a bathroom? Can she specify a box size of toiletries that will fit?

She may have to make clear rules about no storage boxes of stuff in common areas or halls.

Orangeballon · 01/07/2019 02:50

Walk away.

Bluesheep8 · 01/07/2019 06:11

Have the removal firm visited to do a survey? There is no way anyone will move her for £300 op.

MyOtherProfile · 01/07/2019 06:24

She's moving to a house share?! This will not end well. What a nightmare.

Roussette · 01/07/2019 07:22

OP you sound a very good friend.

I have supported friends through all manner of problems but I know hoarding is one I would seriously struggle with. Helping my parents move and clear houses when they weren't really hoarders, just clutterers was bad enough. Very stressful for me trying to help. There is no sense of normality to it, the person can't be helped, doesn't want to be helped, rejects the person or persons helping them often reacting with unfair anger, it would be something I would have to walk away from. Just being honest here...

OoohRhubarbLetsGo · 01/07/2019 08:02

It seems that you are carrying a lot of the thinking burden here OP, as well as doing most of the actual physical work.

What does your friend propose as a viable plan ?

HelloJuly · 01/07/2019 08:03

@Organisedclutter I found your posts informed and informative! Not sure why you got picked on for providing a clear and experienced vote. Very sorry to hear your story Flowers

Notwiththeseknees · 01/07/2019 09:49

@Organisedclutter Thanks

H2OH20Everywhere · 01/07/2019 10:06

I'm a bit of a hoarder for various reasons (including the fact my father died when I was young so yes, I do have emotional attachments to things because I know they won't leave me whilst people will). I'm ok getting rid of stuff if they're damaged, (so sometimes have to deliberately break something before getting rid) and I've also taken to taking photographs of them before chucking.

Not sure if either idea would help your friend but thought it worth suggesting them.

TitianaTitsling · 01/07/2019 14:49

I was not picking on organised more aggrieved by the statement that people have little idea or desire to help.