To feel threatened by SS

[sashypants]

Back in February I had a massive meeting with my HV and my sons nursery, it was about his on going behaviour towards his siblings.

I said some days I wished I wasn't here and because of that, they got SS involved. I welcomed the help thinking that they'd either 1) take ds off me (would make me happy for about a day!) Or 2) get him seen by a physiologist .

FF to now and I'm just pissed off. The guy comes (the 3rd social worker we've had btw!!) Sees things are tough then says "awk well hopefully we can get you some help" this has been his words for the last 3 meetings.

So I refused any more meetings, and told him why. His response "I do understand but if we work together we can get you some help" 😤 but now I've got a letter that states if I do not comply with the meetings they will set up a childrens hearing basically, so pretty much I have to let them through my door or they will get some court order in place to be let through my door.

I feel this is grossly unfair, it's pretty much their way and nothing I can do about it 😓 am I really BU to request no more meetings

Yes he has visited him in nursery but iirc the nursery told him not to come back as there is no issues.
He hasn't tried the door when I've been out otherwise he would phone and text, I've had to cancel the meetings because I'm too busy.

Whilst it doesn't make any difference to anybody on here, if you react to the SW similarly, you make it worse.

Youve binned off the health visitor, you've said very worrying stuff about your eldest on multiple occasions, and now everything's fixed so they have to take your word for it - if you get angry with them for saying they will continue to monitor and you either engage willingly or through legal means will have to, well, tough.

They don't want you to cut yourself at the first tantrum or poor behaviour - and when you're ascribing evil intent to a child and your ideation is of big knives, they certainly don't want you to react with them in your hand.

They can't say for certain at such a short time that the antidepressants have worked and you don't see your child as an evil, jealous threat. In all honesty, you still see him as jealous, which is still accusing him of malice.

You can't prove everything is fine so quickly. And you don't have to like it. They're going to do it anyway - because they don't want to be conducting a serious case review in a couple years to find out how regular visits were stopped on the say so of an unwell and stressed mother.

Yes I know, I do realise that. I'm probably just going to have to let it go to a children's hearing, I simply don't have the time for the meetings anymore.
Describing him as jealous isn't malice 🤦‍♀️ but he is, it isn't hard to understand why though.

Refusing services and saying “oh things are much better now, we don’t need you” are all massive red flags. I believe this is why they are progressing in the way they are. While I firmly believe there are cases where families don’t need ongoing support and have the right to refuse, I do think you’re still in the very very early stages of improvement. I’m not knocking you, by the way, but it’s early days. Let them visit and show them things are going well. Obstructing will make your life harder as you won’t feel in control of what’s happening. Please don’t make things harder for yourself when they’re starting to improve.

Sorry, I didn’t see your post above mine. I think you’re making the right decision.

It would probably be a lot less traumatic if you just found the time to engage with him , you say he stays 6 minutes not hours.

Families disengaging is a red flag, yes things are better and your doing well but as I said before only a few weeks ago you were offering him money to take him. Social services are overstretched and under funded they won't keep you all open forever if they see improvements sadly they can't take your word for that via text.

I would arrange for him to come over and write down questions for him such as can you have a copy of the assessment, what are the children's current status (child in need, child protection) and let him see the changes you have made.

Wow. Piling on a woman with MH issues, struggling with her child.

Well done MN. Well done. 🙄

But he wasn't jealous, he was a child who needed reassurance and regular one to one time with his Mum/SD. He was one who needed to be supervised slightly more carefully. He's one who needs love and to be shown it, and to not be rejected, because at his age, he knew that you didn't really want him around.

Same behaviour, but using the word jealous to describe him will be taken as you still believing he's bad and selfish and that, with disengaging from services, will worry them.

you still see him as jealous, which is still accusing him of malice.

You're nitpicking now. I describe my DD as jealous occasionally as do many, many parents. It's a standard phrase.

The OP has answered everyone's questions very openly, some people with delicate sensibilities/ignorance of MH issues can't seem to handle that and are kicking a woman when she's down. Some posters should be very ashamed of themselves on this one!

I'm glad things have improved for you and your DS OP. I also think you are making the right decision in letting it go to hearing. Keep up with the improvements you've made and your son will thrive, as I'm sure as a mother that's all you want for him. Take care.

Jeez. You don't have time for meetings any more? That's not going to go down well is it?
Throughout this I've not seen much mention of your DP and what he is doing to help you and ds. Not have you said whether or not your DD's dad is involved in any way. Your DP doesn't sound involved at all-does he do any patenting of him since he's the only dad he's known?
Your posts are alarming. Very alarming and SS have every right to be concerned.
I'm stunned about leaving them in the bath together when you know how he behaves.
I've had bad clinical depression and PND too. I would never have offered to pay someone to take my child away. Even the one who has lately been very challenging and the police have been involved due to her dad.
No way is anyone with half a brain going to be reassured by the oh it's all ok now I'm on antidepressants.
What happens when ds goes to school and you haven't as much time to do all these things that are making a difference?

Refusing help is just going to escalate things with SS. Rightly so.

If the meetings are only 6 minutes im struggling to see how you “don’t have the time”

I also think people are missing the point with regards to OP wanting SS to take her son.

She was in a desperate situation and she did the right thing - she reached out for help. Would people prefer the alternative? That she kept it to herself, became more and more depressed/angry/frustrated/anxious and took it out on her child? I actually think it was a brave move and I would much prefer that a mum ask for someone to remove their child than to suffer in silence and the situation take a very sinister turn.

Wow. Piling on a woman with MH issues, struggling with her child.

You obviously have no knowledge of safeguarding guidelines - this mum is describing very clear textbook safeguarding issues and doesn’t appear to have any insight whatsoever into these and is merely focussed on “getting rid” of the social worker, having “binned off” the HV and superficially attended a “bollocks” parenting course. Posters agreeing with her and giving tea and sympathy isn’t going to enable her to get social services out of her life. And yes, while she obviously does have issues, the welfare of the child is paramount.

The sw may be a trainee or newly qualified and so may not actually know any tactics. And checking in on you is a way to give you support

I think I remember your previous threads and I’m sorry SS aren’t being more helpful. I would personally send them a letter recorded delivery and make a copy of it for yourself too. Explain what you have mentioned on here basically, that the various SW’s aren’t offering much help.

When the SW next visits, don’t let him fob you off. Explain that you don’t think he has been incredibly helpful, you want to perhaps enrol on a parenting course? Could be invaluable and also perhaps have your DS referred to CAMHS.

You do need to realise your DS has been through a lot of change in a short space of time, it’s a lot to take on.

@Cyrusc there's feeling desperate and there's offering a social worker money to take away your child. I've felt desperate many times over the years. I've fleetingly thought it might be better if I wasn't here but it was more a case of I just needed a break rather than actually wanting to be dead. I would never have offered anyone money to take any of the dc away. If her mental health was that bad at the time then SS would have been seeking psychiatric assessment surely. Instead it seems that everything is too much and she wanted rid of her child.

You talk about my daughters not hus sisters. You may not realise it but there is an "otherness " about him coming across in your posts. As others have said I'd leave things as they are re. SS. They cant afford to be involved where there us no longer a need as unfortunately they are snowed under.
And it's great that you are parenting him now and that's having a positive effect. Be proud that you will have a happy son.

@sashypants Are you in Scotland? That may be why you reference children's hearings and haven't heard reference to core meetings, etc.
If it does go to a children's hearings, it may not necessarily progress further.

It's not nitpicking. Words are very important - using 'jealous' makes it sounds as though the small child has a a defect in his character, that there's something fundamentally wrong with him and he's the problem, which is what SS will pick up on.

It's like saying a kid is a detestable little shit or an utter bastard to their sisters - if they've been bloody awful, it's probably fairly accurate, but should never be used in front of a childcare professional or the child themselves.

Changing the language to something that doesn't have those negative connotations would be helpful. Because whilst standard usage of the word is to dismiss or criticise others 'Oh, don't worry about them, they're just jealous', 'My DP is jealous of my relationship with my parents', etc, using it about a child isn't going to help get the SS off anybody's back.

Yes I'm in scotland

Still not answering the questions then. I think it's a case of n

No one being able to help you rather than no one being able to help your son.

I have actually said that DS's dad isnt here. I'm not going to elaborate more.
Yes DP is helping, he is on board with making positive change.
Well that's great you wouldn't make those comments. Like I said it was when I was going through a termination so I was at the physically lowest point of my life.

Does your eldest son see his Dad? I’m just wondering if this is the only one of your four who doesn’t have contact with both birth parents.

@sashypants I speak with some experience of the system. However, I do not know all the background so cannot give advice, only tell you likely outcomes. If you are seen to not be engaging with Social Work, the matter can be referred to the Children's Reporter. They then decide if it is worth pursuing and if the matter should go to a children's hearing.

If it goes to a hearing, you can then explain why you have not engaged with Social Work. The panel may then discharge your case or put an order in place that would make Social Work legally obliged to support your son (and you). I can't advice you the best course of action for your son and you. Only you can. I'm not going to advise you how to deal with your son because it sounds like you are making progress. However, three weeks is relatively short term compared to a longstanding issue.

Either way, good luck. I hope your DS can feel sustained happiness, as can you.