To feel threatened by SS

[sashypants]

Back in February I had a massive meeting with my HV and my sons nursery, it was about his on going behaviour towards his siblings.

I said some days I wished I wasn't here and because of that, they got SS involved. I welcomed the help thinking that they'd either 1) take ds off me (would make me happy for about a day!) Or 2) get him seen by a physiologist .

FF to now and I'm just pissed off. The guy comes (the 3rd social worker we've had btw!!) Sees things are tough then says "awk well hopefully we can get you some help" this has been his words for the last 3 meetings.

So I refused any more meetings, and told him why. His response "I do understand but if we work together we can get you some help" 😤 but now I've got a letter that states if I do not comply with the meetings they will set up a childrens hearing basically, so pretty much I have to let them through my door or they will get some court order in place to be let through my door.

I feel this is grossly unfair, it's pretty much their way and nothing I can do about it 😓 am I really BU to request no more meetings

Well ds dad isn't here at all
And SS don't even know who he is so good luck to them arranging DS to stay there and why would they when there has been no abuse (like me hitting him)
There is no reason to remove him at all

OP I’m a social worker and I find your posts quite worrying. I’m glad you’re feeling things are improving, however it needs to be evidenced by professionals over a period of time. I can’t make decisions/recommendations based on the say so of parents, I need evidence that I can take to my manager and justify why I’ve reached the conclusion that we should close/step-down the case. That means I need tangible evidence that the safeguarding concerns are no longer a concern.

One of the biggest red flags for me is when parents disengage - regardless of what they’re saying. If you want them to go away, you need to be finding time to evidence to them that things have changed, as clearly you’ve said yourself you were at a very low point. My shift is supposed to finish at 5, if families are really struggling to find time because they’re working, I will voluntarily work out of hours to work with them. Yes it’s a pain and I don’t get any thanks for it, but if needs must then I will do. Ask your social worker if he has any flexibility at all in his diary, you might be surprised.

You need to call your social worker and ask them to visit. When he comes, have a pen and paper handy and ask him exactly where your case is at the moment. I’m unfamiliar with Scotland’s procedures but in England there is no way this type of referral would be going straight to court. If that was even on the radar, your social worker would already have been round asking if you’d voluntarily sign them into foster care (cos why go to court if it can be avoided).

You need to ask what the plan is moving forward and what kind of improvements they need to see before they can close/step-down. You need to meet this criteria and evidence if. Being proactive is always impressive and shows parents are taking concerns on board.

You need to ask him for a copy of the assessment that he has completed on your family. It should outline what the concerns are and what the plan is moving forward - including his recommendation.

Ask him if there is any lower level support that can be put in place. Eg like a family intervention worker who could complete work with your family such as life story work with the 5 year old, wishes and feelings work and potentially help you out with routines and boundaries.

Above all else, when he visits. Don’t minimise the concerns, embrace them, explain why you feel they are no longer relevant, show what you’ve done and ask him what else he needs to see to be convinced that things have changed. Don’t be defensive, it can be just as hard for a social worker to explain brutal concerns as it is for parents to hear it. We know it’s upsetting, it’s hard to find the right words sometimes but it’s important to be honest with yourself and him by not minimising concerns as though they don’t matter anymore. 3 weeks is a very short time frame and if I were you I’d prepare myself for some involvement for some time yet but look at it as a positive rather than a negative.

Assuming that his name isn't on the birth certificate, that leaves your parents, siblings, cousins, an auntie, grandparents - or strangers. And, unless you don't know who his father is, there's a damn good chance that there are details of him somewhere and they can and will find them out, whatever you refuse to tell them.

They see the things you have said as putting him at risk of becoming emotionally abused and neglected (and it doesn't bode well for the younger ones if they start playing up as well). They see your descriptions of self harm and suicidal ideation as a warning that you might do something harmful to yourself. With the way you have spoken about him in the past, they see your emotional state as putting him at risk of you harming him. And the younger ones as they grow older and inherently more challenging.

You have said massively alarming things. And now they're doing something, you've rejected all involvement. That alarms them, as not only are people in the early stages of antidepressant treatment at a significantly raised risk of self harm and suicide, because it gives them the energy to do something about their thoughts, it could mean that you are likely to stop taking them abruptly on the grounds that 'I've had them for three months, everything's fine, I don't need them' and you plummet into discontinuation syndrome - they can also initially help, but if somebody was depressed as a part of a first episode of bipolar, you could easily be going into a manic phase - which increases the risk of harm to children.

You're refusing to engage. So you either need to be compelled to or they will end up making decisions that you probably won't like. For ALL the children, including any future ones.

Engage now and you avoid this. Continue as you are and it will be just and suchlike when you finally get around to realising that they mean business and can make any decision without your consent.

Your choice. Engage and let them be reassured that all the children are safe, or resist and risk a lot more involvement you have no power to prevent.

They could try and find him, would be dam impossible. Unless of course they want to speak to a corpse in the ground.
I haven't rejected all involvement at all, this guy has been coming out regularly since April and not a dam thing has been done. Is it any wonder I cbf with them?

Every time he has come, I'm polite, I'm open, I'm honest ( if I've had a bad day I won't try to hide it)
But he says nothing, no plans about going forward, nothing. Just says we will arrange another meeting.

It'll have to be DP that he comes and speaks to then but my basic post was to feel annoyed that I've got to let him in regardless, when it's been
weeks and he hasn't tried to force his way around. So they can't be overly concerned if he hasn't visited in that amount of time.

Op I think you would be foolish to let this go to court when the alternative is short friendly meetings no matter how inconvenient. It sounds like the SW will be a bit flexible about the meeting times at the moment and is being understanding and looking into getting you some help, even though you say things are going better there might still be something helpful to you on offer. Ss can be helpful if they are on your side and working with you, even if things do take time. What if ds behaviour worsens again, you might be able to get him some therapy and support at school if he needs it.

If things don't go your way in court which they may well not given that you are up against a professional social worker who has been to the trouble of taking you to court and will look bad if it is a waste of time. SW know what to say and they will be taken seriously by the court, so if the court then rules you must continue with SS it will be a lot more official and you will have to comply 100%. They will probably then have more official and longer meetings and make you do more parenting classes and provide evidence of what you are doing and may turn up unexpectedly and check on you. They may start to look into your parenting of the other dc.

So my advice is do the meetings and keep things as friendly as possible, take any help you are offered if it sounds at all useful and get the Sw on your side in case you need them in future.

Wow you are so naive, I know someone who had their child removed as he was deemed to be “at risk of emotional abuse” do you think ss only remove children for physical abuse?

It certainly sounds like emotional abuse from reading your posts.

Because the social worker has already told me they aren't going to remove DS

I read about half the thread so I may have missed stuff that has been said onwards but just wanted to share my situation with you and say I totally empathise and know just how bloody hard it is.

My eldest is actually my stepson. He went through a lot. My husband was the one who took him home from hospital aged 5 days. He has sporadic supervised contact with his mother which ended being unsupervised at 3yo once a month and a month before his 5th birthday she saw him, had a strop and never saw him again. He was 8 a few months ago. I have been there since 14 months and have a near 5yo with my husband.

He is being assessed for ADHD and ASD. It is so hard. I have ended up with black eyes, bruises, totally battered. He very nearly pushed my mother in law off a cliff in Greece. My youngest has been in A&E with injuries and he strangled him to the point he went blue. I now can't leave him alone even to go the toilet. I have to bring one with me. At school he is an angel. But he nearly melts when he walks through the door and the anger and anxiety just floods out of him.

We don't have SS involved but school, a psychologist and pediatricians are involved. You can try and seek your own help. Relate offer family counselling. Mind also offer children's sessions. You can look in your local area for charities that offer help and support. Most just need a self referral and if SS see you have got your own help then it is bonus they may put on assessment.

I think you need to just keep working with them until they sign you off. Once they are involved it is important to show your willingness to work with them. I know you feel it is pointless but in the end it will pay off.

It is good you are on AD and you feel they are helping. Also doing things alone with him but also as a family so he doesn't think he always gets 100% attention. We regularly take the boys on separate days out as their interests are different but then family days too.

I feel for you, I know how hard it is. I have been at the doctors sobbing. I have cried in the arms of teachers. I have cried to him, begging him to tell me how to help him (which I know is unreasonable, that deep down he doesn't know, but I was at the end of my tether) The fear for your other child safety is terrifying especially when they just don't care what they have done. When he pushed his brother down the stairs he just did not care one tiny bit. He sometimes says the right things that "I'm sorry" ect but it never reaches his eyes and you can see there is no emotion attached to it! I am a 3rd year university student and have missed so much placement and university due to his behaviour I was on the verge of having to go back a year due to missed hours.

But you are taking all the right steps to try and improve things but I think you just need to stick with it.

Good luck with it all and sorry for the essay, I just feel sometimes it is easier realising you are not the only one who feels this way. x x

The post from @WillowPeach is very good, OP. I'd read it a few times, screenshot it, and follow it. I think your case will get closed a lot quicker than your plan.

So this wee boy has also suffered the death of his father? And you don’t think that’s worth mentioning when he has behavioural issues???

Do you understand children’s emotional needs at all?

Nope cos he has never met him. Happened before he was born

Sashypants, this will be affecting him, of course it will be. Your boy has been through so much. This is salvageable but you need to acknowledge his emotional pain.

Sashy, can I ask, are you over the death of his father? Could this be making things not as easy as they could be?

Well and truly, his father was a horrible man.
Hope he is in a better place now though

I'm not sure how it could be affecting him, he was born with no father in the picture then after a few months my DP was there. It was explained to him that DP would be moving in etc, we done plenty of meetings before he moved in. DS has called him dad since he could talk but some days uses his name so he is aware that he isn't his actual dad but has never asked or enquired about his proper dad, none of the family on that side care either. I'm not even sure they know he is born but they are quite... selfish people and don't take kindly to babies born outside of marriage so it's unlikely that even if he were here, they'd care about him.

Thankfully DP has a huge family on his side who absolutely adore him, FIL loves him always spending money on him and he usually stays over at his house once a month. BIL takes him out when he can and again takes him to messy play, has taken him swimming. He is completely adored which I'm grateful for as my family are non existent.

Despite what I have said on here I have no detachment issues with DS. I have distanced myself from everybody before the ADs (I was being selfish I know) but I genuinely love spending time with him, exploring a new jigsaw, reading him a bed time story, helping him with numbers. He is a lovely wee boy when he is away from his siblings (again making me further believe its jealousy related) as I didn't really prepare him much, it was just sprung upon him and then the next one! It doesn't take a genius to work out that would of been hard, confusing and he just wanted the same attention.

I no longer think he needs evaluation from anybody else (my own parenting style was the problem, as was 2 babies in 2 years) I am embarrassed by my comments of take him away, again this is when I was going through a termination and was mentally at the lowest point of my life. I fucking hate myself for even getting pregnant. I'm not going to go into more detail on that. Like I said I have since been offered respite care (offered only last month) and I refused (a sign that things are better because I genuinely do not want him away from me) I couldn't imagine anything worse. That would confuse him even more, he would feel even more pushed out and that hurts

It might not seem like it to some but I am trying. I've had to deal with a new baby who ended up in hospital, a termination, the passing of my GM, and now working. It's not hard to work out that I am a bit stressed and overwhelmed.

We are genuinely going to stick to giving him more time (once school starts, there will be 2 hours before getting DD and always the weekend)
But it's more about making him aware that we are there for him, that HE IS a part of this family and that no matter what he can come to us. And just keeping with playing with him when I/DP can, or using his mood board or trying to take him out.

That's all so positive Sashy and I'm glad you've not got the grief of losing someone special hanging over you.

Just go through the process, keep doing what you're doing. Play the game, jump through the hoops and all this will be behind you. Don't see it as negative. See it as a positive part of a process to bring your family even closer together.

You've got this. Now show everyone else that you have too. Embrace it. Show SS how well you are doing. Action speaks louder than words.

I will, I'm going to contact him Monday morning and hope he can come out Tuesday as that's my day off.
I know I need to engage, it was silly to think otherwise but I'm just annoyed after months of getting no help, getting nowhere that I now HAVE to have these visits 😒

good luck to you all Sashy.

Well done sashy - try and be patient while keeping engaging. Since April feels like a long time for you - but if you and DS haven't been gelling properly for more than two years, it's not long to get a new pattern established.

SS are partly testing to see if you've got the resilience and stability to keep going on your positive path. You know you can do it, for yourself and your children.

You’ve been in a dark place and gone through a tough time. You’re being hard on yourself but in the past, have also been hard on your son. Many parents go through this sort of thing and come out the other side. It can be repaired. It doesn’t all have to end badly.
Please, please explain to the SW about your worries around fitting his visits in. He should then accommodate you and hopefully be flexible to make it easier. Keep going and taking steps in the right direction. :)

@Soontobe60, no I appreciate that they don't actually have all the power. They got a interim court order to get him removed. The court process is supposed to be 26 weeks and yet it has dragged on for almost a year.It is an unusual case because this was about child on parent violence which SS witnessed first hand upon a visit to the home which resulted in his removal.Their fear being that if he caused his mother significant harm or worse in the home then you have a vulnerable child on their own with an incapacitated mother. It seems ridiculous to think of an 8 year being able to cause that level of harm, but he is the size of a 13 year old. All the court appointed experts have completely exonerated her; from the geneticist to the paed to the clinical psychologist. His presentation is due to his chromosomal abnormality not as the result of shoddy or abusive parenting. It feels like it's become personal. My friend has been a thorn in our local authority's side for 7 years, sharp elbowed middle class mum, demanding that they do better for her son, be it with schools, be it for proper diagnosis (CAMHS misdiagnosed), for respite, for meaningful support. She engaged with everyone, but the state of an under resourced public sector meant that nothing was ever done properly, nothing answered in a timely manner, her assigned workers going on long term sick, unqualified carers for her son etc..It's almost like they went 'you want respite? We'll give you respite!'.it is a tale of the utmost tragedy. It took her 7 years to have her son, fertility treatment upon fertility treatment and now he's been taken away. Hopefully to be returned, but SS have an axe to grind and they are determined to keep him away.

I think the fact you think his father was a "horrible man" is having a negative affect on your opinion of your son.

Also, a child of five, with younger siblings, shouldn't really be aware that your dp isn't his father?

I'm guessing this has been thrown at this child on more than one occasion for him to be aware of that.

You need to take a good hard look at how you're speaking to your son. He's only a little boy and incapable of all the badness you seem to think he is responsible for.

The fact you didn't say his dad had died leads me to believe you're not entirely open or honest with others either.

Oh and his nursery probably don't need social services help there because they treat him equally to all the other children in their care, whilst at home he is your son, not your partner's son.

I just feel for this little lad, imagine being aware at 5 that you don't belong.

No it isn't and he was a horrible, vile man.
Somebody asked if he was aware that DP isn't his dad and yes he is. I couldn't lie and pretend he was, somebody would clock on sooner or later when they realise they have different names!!
Because I don't need to give every little detail. I said his dad isn't around, that should be enough info

If you dont recognise the difference to a child’s emotions between having an absent parent and a deceased parent then no wonder ss are worried about your emotional parenting.

You really need to go on a parenting course.

I can't blame you being worried, I've never has SS involvement but I'd be terrified of the control they have.
Because I don't need to give every little detail. I said his dad isn't around, that should be enough info
I agree with this, but it could be seen as a red flag.
WillowPeach post has excellent advice.
I hope it works out and gets wrapped up as soon as.

PP I meant on here I shouldn't need to give every detail, SS know he is dead but have never asked for his name for any details