I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

[Fairylighting]

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

I couldn't live like that - every time you go in the garden it seems to elicit a flurry of posts from batshit Penelope asking you to go indoors! I'd notify her (yes notify, don't ask/request/suggest) that you are going to erect a fence around your bit of garden and then I'd use that garden whenever the fuck you want! You've bought, which means this crazy situation will run and run, so as it's the start of the summer and you clearly don't want to have to deal with this nonsense every time you wish to set foot in your own garden I'd end it now.

This really needs a diagram. I can't visualise it at all.

I assume it's a back-garden that's split, but I can't see how "the back half" can have fire escape stairs anywhere near it, unless the stairs are hitting the ground a considerable distance from the house.

humph, clicky isn't working for me.

Trying again with a different link… clicky

@Juells Penelope drove me to it

I suggest fence too and you are perfectly in your rights to do it. Then have a big ol’ smokey bbq every time she puts her washing out.

I wouldn’t put up the lights because I can see how she would find that annoying as her house is on the ground floor, but otherwise YADNBU and she sounds mental. You just have to stick to your guns, keep considerately using the garden as normal and try to stick to talking only to her partner as he sounds more reasonable.

She's a loon. Continue your (completely reasonable) use of your part of the garden. Next time she kicks off you could suggest she put up a fence if it bothers her that much. Do NOT give as much as a hint that you'd pay towards it.

Definitely mark the boundary and revert to the split, you can’t have someone telling you when you can use your garden.

You and your neighbour live in London so you will be overlooked

Penelope is batshit. If she doesn't want to be overlooked by you or anyone else she needs to move to the middle of the country.

she sounds bonkers but as is so often the way you have allowed her a way in because you agreed to the idea of schedules to use your own garden.

So you now need to shut and firmly bolt that door. Your part of the garden is legally yours , you are entitled to use it how and when you like and there will be no further discussion on the matter with either of them.

Put up a fence & enjoy your garden.
And stop interacting with/trying to please your NDN.

If your bit of the garden is directly at the bottom of your steps then a fence is your best option OP. Does your bit get the sun?

A diagram would be good.

Penelope should have thought of this before she decided to live there. You've made the effort to be accommodating and she is being completely unreasonable. I wouldn't bother anymore. Use your half of the garden how you like.

Fence!!
Is she trying to manipulate you into not using the garden? That or bullying you. Put up a fence or get some of those planters with panels in between. Just be very careful you check the boundaries with a surveyor as she sounds unbalanced. Then use the garden any time you want.

Tell her to move to a house. I hd a neighbour like this in the exact same scenario. You have to repeat oh that's a shame sounds like you don't suit flat living. Maybe you should move.

@PettyContractor this arrangement is quite common in London and generally the steps from the upstairs flat extend quite far into the garden, like fire escape stairs so part of downstairs neighbours garden is actually underneath them.

Penelope would probably start complaining about being overlooked from the access stairs if OP fenced the back part of the garden!

I feel for Penelope - but she's being unreasonable and it's escalated.

If you don't want to move you have to sort your half of the garden and do whatever the hell you like in it.

Sounds like she is suffering from some mental health issues and therefore acting slightly irrationally about the situation. I can see why it could be unsettling having people sat outside your house, however this is what she signed up for when buying a flat with a shared garden, and therefore she needs to either learn to deal with it, or move. I agree about the fence being a good idea, though it obviously depends on the size of the garden.

tbh you should have stuck to the boundary. I sympathise with your neighbour because we had a property where the neighbours consistently ignored the boundaries in the garden. We often had to close our windows because they were directly outside them chatting, playing with their DC, etc even though the garden in front of our window was our garden and not their's. We also ended up having to draw our blinds just for some privacy because again they would stand directly outside our windows.
You're breaching their privacy. They're not breaching your's because you live on the first floor.

Good God. Just put a fence up. What a bloody drama.

The best resolution is just to separate the garden and ignore them as much as possible, I'd probably get e new phone number as well

It’s time for a fence.

I’d hate the shared arrangement tbh.

Penelope is batshit.

Put the fence up and cease communication.

If she's that upset by seeing you sat in the garden she really needs to move to the middle of nowhere, where she won't ever be disturbed by signs of human life.

In all seriousness, whatever is going on with her is not to do with your use of the garden. She seems very frail and needs to address her own issues instead of projecting them onto you. There's no way that seeing a known neighbour and her mum having a cup of tea could make a group of guests feel exposed or in some way vulnerable while eating their lunch! What a load of nonsense.

I'd suggest that you put up a fence and inform them that you'd like to cease communication because this has all got ridiculous and out of hand. Sharing isn't working.