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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden

618 replies

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 13:38

Ok, so I really don't think IABU, but was chatting to a friend about this fiasco last night and thought it would be worth putting it to the MN jury! I'll try not to drip feed, but that means this might be rather long!

I live in the first floor flat of a Victorian terrace conversion in London. It's a share of freehold with the ground floor flat and we technically each own half of the garden; my the back half from my fire escape stairs to the back fence and them the front half, from their French doors to the bottom of my steps. The whole freehold and both properties were previously owned by the same person, who rented each flat out and the garden has never been physically split by a fence or hedge etc. When I moved in (at the about same time as my downstairs neighbours), we had a brief discussion whereby we decided to share the garden since it's very small and that seemed like the most sensible and beneficial way to enjoy it.

Since then, we've had a few (4x over 20 months) minor issues where one of them (let's call her Penelope) has sent a message to our shared WhatsApp group complaining about noise, most of which wasn't actually coming from my flat. For example, once when I was away for a weekend and another time when I was asleep in bed. Then, one morning after they had been disturbed by noise from my flat, after I'd had to make a phonecall late at night I got a WhatsApp message from Penelope requesting that I don't have the TV or radio on in my bedroom after 10.30pm Sunday-Thursday... in some ways that one was easy since I don't have a TV or radio in my bedroom.

After that, we arranged to meet up for a cuppa to discuss their issues and set a date to do so a couple of weeks later. A few days before that date I was in the garden with my mum, having a cup of tea, in the afternoon. Penelope came outside and explained that they were having guests over for lunch and felt exposed because we were in the garden, and requested that we went outside. I said that I didn't think that was a reasonable request and she went inside crying.

We then met for the planned chat and Penelope and her partner (he can be Samuel for the purposes of this thread) explained that the noise wasn't really an issue and that it hadn't happened very often, also that Penelope is a light sleeper and is probably more bothered about it because of that, so we dropped that issue. Penelope then started talking about the garden and how exposed they feel in their home, when I'm in the shared garden before Samuel suggested she might want to apologise for the events of the preceding weekend. She did so, and I explained how rude I had felt that was before she continued to explain how bothered they were by the whole issue. I expressed some sympathy but also said that I like using the garden and that it's one of the reasons I bought the flat. We agreed to share schedules so they and I could plan any events involving guests for times when the other party is away if possible. We did that over the course of the following week.

About a week later I got a message saying it was Penelope's birthday and asking whether I could therefore not use the garden, so they could relax in their home. The following day I got a message with some ideas for changing the garden in a way that would make it more open with fewer changes of level and planting. I replied to say that I was happy to chat it through but that it sounded like a lot of work and might also further reduce their privacy then the conversation went quiet.

Another week later I sent a message saying that I was considering buying some solar powered fairy lights for the garden and I got a really tetchy reply from Penelope, who was upset that they'd be shining light into their property all night long. I explained that we could just turn them on and off as we wanted to use them. This prompted another message asking me not to use the garden on the Saturday of that weekend, followed by a long message explaining how upset they are by my use of the garden and how it prevents them from doing laundry and cooking. Penelope said this has all triggered her depression and anxiety and that they're worried the lights will look tacky and encourage me to use the garden in the evenings.

I replied on WhatsApp saying I wanted to consider a proper response and drafted a long email over a few days, setting out the legal position and the fact that I want to use the garden (or at least my part of it) freely. I proposed a way forwards that included me and Samuel communicating until Penelope feels better, neither party making any changes to the garden in the short term, informing eachother of any abnormal use of the garden in advance, and that our default position would need to be a return to the legal split of the garden.

Anyway, that was two weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep since... What's happened?!

OP posts:
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BettyBooJustDoinTheDoo · 28/06/2019 14:39

She is trying to steal your garden, isn’t there some law somewhere that if you can prove that a piece of land is not being used you can claim it as your own? There was a thread a while back about a neighbour who claimed someone’s woodland? Just imagine how much more valuable Penelope’s flat would be with its own private garden in London....... Penelope is pretty clever with her woe is me act.

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 14:42

Phew! I'm very relieved there hasn't been a flurry of replies saying IAMBU!

I've tried to cobble together a little diagram, dredging up my school Paint skills. Basically, the plans are very clear in the deeds and they would come off much worse if the garden was split, as much of their bit is overshadowed by my steps. I can see how annoying that must be, but it really isn't my fault or problem! I wouldn't mind splitting the garden to remove the issues, but I wonder whether now I've slightly threatened that, they've backed off and that's why I haven't had a reply to my email.

They already have blinds, which they draw a lot of the time, but Penelope says it's quite dark in their kitchen/dining room anyway so they prefer not to draw them.

I didn't ignore the noise comments - just went back and said it wasn't me.

Obviously I'm not peering in, but it is a small space and the garden is naturally oriented towards the house so it is easy to see in and out in both directions.

As it happens, I did bump into Samuel on the morning that I sent the email and told him broadly what I was planning to say. He said Penelope is having a rough time at the moment and that it isn't really about the garden. I'm sure that's the case, but it doesn't really make my life any easier!

I can't do laundry when you're in your garden
OP posts:
PettyContractor · 28/06/2019 14:42

The photos up-thread really helped. Lived in London for many years, but never near older terraces, so never seen this type of set-up.

Outsomnia · 28/06/2019 14:42

How do we see the results of the yes/no vote please? Sorry haven't seen it before and don't know. Thanks.

justilou1 · 28/06/2019 14:43

Sounds like Samuel knows exactly what he's got with his Mrs - She's so manipulative! I'd definitely diarise everything and not fall for any of the crocodile tears. Princess Penelope doesn't do sharing....

HorridHenrysNits · 28/06/2019 14:43

A fence is the only sensible solution.

PettyContractor · 28/06/2019 14:43

I see the diagram now...

Fairylighting · 28/06/2019 14:44

Nope, no side return!

OP posts:
H2OH20Everywhere · 28/06/2019 14:45

Split the garden, and suggest Penelope invests in some net curtains so you aren't staring into her house when you're out enjoying your garden.

justilou1 · 28/06/2019 14:45

Samuel's about to leave and you'll be stuck with her!!!

Ponoka7 · 28/06/2019 14:46

CustardySergeant, it's obviously Penelope and a friend/relative.

I've found that the more you indulge someone with Anxiety, the further they push the ridiculous. Unfortunately, often, that's the nature of anxiety.

OP it's either she gets a privacy screen or you put the fence up.

fufulina · 28/06/2019 14:47

Put a fence up. It is your garden. Double check your deeds - in our flat although it wasn't fenced when we moved in, the garden was very clearly marked on the deeds and we then put up a fence along the marked boundary. Better for everyone.

Horsemenoftheaclopalypse · 28/06/2019 14:50

Zero sympathy for pushy Penelope.

After seeing that diagram I’d 100% install the fence.

I wouldn’t even give them an option of keeping it shared.
You’ll have a decent ish private garden and she’ll be staring at a wall of wood with a garden the size of a postage stamp. Moron...

CustardySergeant · 28/06/2019 14:51

Outsomnia You will see the results of the vote once you have voted.

SpanglyPop · 28/06/2019 14:52

To be fair with your update OP Penelope might have a big issue going on at the moment as well as mental health problems. Samuel sounds reasonable as do you. I would just leave it for the moment in terms of communicating by email, use the garden but be as considerate as possible - maybe a temporary screen you could put up and down as you use it?! I know that sounds batshit but if shes really having a hard time mentally etc I wouldn't want to upset her further. Then when she is feeling better or more reasonable have a proper conversation about a resolution - at which point she might just say sorry I was going through a rough time I am fine now and no need to worry just use the garden however you want. Or she may decide to move! Which would probably be the best outcome for her.

CharBart · 28/06/2019 14:53

Agree, fence it. My best friend had a gf flat with this arrangement, fenced, and had a nice private garden space. You didn’t really notice the stairs from upstairs or the neighbours garden. It will be much better for them as well as you.

LizB62A · 28/06/2019 14:53

I'd suggest a fence then get some rescue chickens Smile

H2OH20Everywhere · 28/06/2019 14:53

Having seen the diagram I'd definitely plan to put a boundary up, and not let them do anything with your half. It's better than I thought it was, I thought your bit was the section near the house, but it's not, so really, if you just use your half of the garden you won't really be disturbing them at all.

Saracen · 28/06/2019 14:54

I do feel for Penelope. I can see how having people just outside her house contributes to her anxiety, and it's unfortunate that she lives in a flat with this setup.

However, you have been more than accommodating, and it isn't working. The "timesharing" idea might have been effective, but in the event, it just seems to be creating more hassle for everyone. You might suggest that you'd be happy for them to put up a fence or trellis if they like, but that you bought a flat with a garden and you intend to use it. I'm sure they can come up with some ideas on their own, such as net curtains, fences, moving to a different home etc.

I do think the fairy lights might be a bit out of order as they will shine into the neighbours' flat.

hotcrossbun4321 · 28/06/2019 14:54

And this is exactly why I immediately discounted any shared gardens when looking for my London flat - I'm a bit of a Penelope and knew I'd get stressed by how my neighbours were using the garden. She made the choice to buy the flat so needs to deal with it - it's not like you're having raves. I'd be reluctant to put up a fence as it would cut the garden up, but a more temporary screen such as a trellis might be an option, or some blinds that don't shut out all of the light but still give privacy, or that low dried grass fencing - maybe something that can be moved when you're using it

Svalberg · 28/06/2019 14:55

@PettyContractor Like pic 2 on this one

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-79869788.html

flooredbored · 28/06/2019 14:56

I would definitely fence it. A nice low fence so Penelope can still see you enjoying your garden but has to keep her mouth shutGrin

Outsomnia · 28/06/2019 14:56

@CustardySergeant

Thanks!

ShatnersWig · 28/06/2019 14:59

Great diagram, OP. Fence it, with some tallish shrurbs or trees or hedging to give you some privacy

Siameasy · 28/06/2019 15:01

Definitely don’t indulge her. I would keep it succinct “I’m going to use my garden” and not be drawn in

I lived in a house in the same scenario many many years ago. But we rented and they owned. We were upstairs. They hated us using the garden but we were entitled to. They used to complain about everything. She was definitely bordering on having something wrong with her. You don’t live in Lewisham do you?!?!