Not telling dp about dd's periods

[Loveatthefiveanddime]

Not happened yet, this is hypothetical. It comes from a conversation with a male colleague at work, (for the record he is 29, childless, and very right-on).
He was saying that if his partner did not tell him when their imaginary future daughter started her periods, he would be gutted.
I argued that if a child has specifically requested that you 'don't tell dad' then you shouldn't as it is her body and her privacy?

In my case, I could imagine very well my dd saying that and actually I don't think it would be a huge deal for my partner as he would respect her privacy, but I am thinking it through now a it is probably quite imminent.

But AIBU? The male colleague was horrified, and said that a mum and dad should be absolutely united on everything and that means absolutely no secrets whatsoever.

Let her get comfortable with herself first I think the other points of view being expressed were that you help her get comfortable with it. Rather than a black and white "leave it up to dd" or "keep her secret as it is her right" you help her explore her thoughts and feelings, and provide guidance.

Because apparently he has a right to know as her parent too and she is too young to make decisions about her own body/privacy/autonomy at that age because she is still a child and it is up to parents to set those boundaries for her even if it goes against her wishes and makes her feel embarrassed and uncomfortable

That was always the point I was trying to make too.... that if my daughter asks me not to tell DH I wouldn’t. But I would also gently say that he might work it out/notice anyway and she can always go to him for support if she wants to.

But both me and DH recognise our relationships with our children as separate from our relationships with each other and our relationships as a family as a whole.

(Only skim read the last few posts as I left the thread for a while as it was triggering for me, so maybe the discussion has moved on but that seemed to be the gist of the counter arguments until that point)

(That first paragraph was sarcasm obvs)

“you help her explore her thoughts and feelings, and provide guidance.”

Don’t we spend a lot of time teaching our girls to trust their feelings and that it’s OK to say “no”?

tosh why have you replaced 'confidentiality' with 'secrecy' (from the poster you are quoting)?

You seem determined to frame a request for confidentiality or privacy as secrecy.

I mentioned it in passing to h but no big deal

@bertrandrussell you asked Don’t we spend a lot of time teaching our girls to trust their feelings and that it’s OK to say “no”? Children do not have the emotional maturity or the understanding to be making decisions about whether or not they say "yes" or "no". Do you think that if a grown up molested a child who said "yes" that would be defence? What you are saying about all this - emotional literacy, boundaries, relationships - is coming across as really confused. Have a look at the pants rule for children - that isn't to do with "trusting your feelings" it is a definitive no touching rule for children.

The dynamics change as the child heads towards adulthood and to start to manage relationships the way they want to - at that point armed with the emotional literacy taught by the parents and greater maturity.

You also said I just think that people have a perfect right to decide who they share stuff with. And that includes children. Although you do have the right to decide who you share things with - of course! - in relation to close relationships you do also need to accept that there are going to be consequences - you withholding info will affect your relationship with that person - and children may not be able to appreciate that and be able to make an informed judgement. The usual and ideal position is that children talk to their parents, so that their parents can know what is going on, and help them as needed. If you get lax about secrets this will affect the relationship and that will have an impact on the child's understanding of boundaries and relationships.

Don’t we spend a lot of time teaching our girls to trust their feelings and that it’s OK to say “no”?

We do - I'm sure we're also capable as parents of explaining where there might be - an odd occasions - where saying "no" isn't the best course of action.

@cassianandor if it helps you can read it as: "I think the other points of view being expressed were that you help her get comfortable with it. Rather than a black and white "leave it up to dd" or "keep her secret as it is her right" "respect her privacy/what she says in confidence" you help her explore her thoughts and feelings, and provide guidance" if that helps.

If you get lax about secrets this will affect the relationship and that will have an impact on the child's understanding of boundaries and relationships.

On the flip side of that which I experienced growing up is that if you constantly override and undermine your children’s attempts to exert autonomy over themselves it is even more damaging to their burgeoning sense of self esteem, confidence, and understanding of relationships and boundaries. I was taught to expect my boundaries to be constantly trampled on, minimised and ignored.

The perfect way to set your children up for abusive adult relationships (which is what happened to me).

Anyway I appreciate there is a middle ground BUT parents don’t always get that right even when they have the best intentions and if your 10-13 year old girl is requesting privacy about her period then I personally feel that is an age-appropriate boundary about her own body that should be respected

My dad would be so grossed out and wouldn't want to know.lol. your partner may have a completely different opinion than your male college, why not discuss with him, before dd starts.

@bertrandrussell - just to be clear, before you twist/contort what I said - where I wrote "Children do not have the emotional maturity or the understanding to be making decisions about whether or not they say "yes" or "no"." I am referring to specific sorts of decisions here obviously - as I said up thread children learning to make their own choices is really important but they need to be age appropriate.

@Juells I'd be afraid that years later they'd tell me "Dad's brother Ian was abusing me, but I was afraid to tell you because you'd tell Dad and he wouldn't believe me" I think that the guidance about this is that you cover this off when you are teaching the pants rule - making it clear that whoever, whenever, the child can trust you with the information and trust you to sort it out for them.

But this is a really good thing for a child to practice setting her boundaries about. There are no disbenefits to the child in deciding that she wants to keep the fact that she has started her periods private from her father until she’s ready. Despite the contortions of some posters on here! It’s all about what the parents want- and the feelings of the man. It should be entirely up to the girl.

Absofrigginlootly
But both me and DH recognise our relationships with our children as separate from our relationships with each other and our relationships as a family as a whole.

Different families have different ways of relating, I guess. 'All together like Brown's cows' gives me the fucking creeps, I'd have found it suffocating growing up, and suffocating when I had children. If you don't allow children to have privacy, boundaries, self-determination, how can they develop a sense of their own identity separate from the family.

There's a huge feeling of 'ownership' of children and disregard for their feelings in this thread that makes me a bit queasy.

On the flip side of that which I experienced growing up is that if you constantly override and undermine your children’s attempts to exert autonomy over themselves it is even more damaging to their burgeoning sense of self esteem, confidence, and understanding of relationships and boundaries. I was taught to expect my boundaries to be constantly trampled on, minimised and ignored. I completely agree that it all has to be age appropriate - overriding and undermining in an age inappropriate way is equally damaging. Psychologists talk about the importance of children making age appropriate choices, learning to know their own mind.

There are no disbenefits to the child in deciding that she wants to keep the fact that she has started her periods private from her father until she’s ready. Despite the contortions of some posters on here! It’s all about what the parents want- and the feelings of the man. It should be entirely up to the girl

Did you miss the perfectly reasonable suggestions of instances where telling the father is desirable? Or are you just choosing to ignore them?

Yes I quite agree Betrand

I “tested” my mum many times (although I wasn’t consciously aware that’s what I was gleaning from the situation) by telling her “small stuff” (like starting my periods). And knew she couldn’t be trusted from that.

So that when something big did come along (My BF told me her step dad was abusing her when we were about 13) I didn’t feel like I could go to her or either of my parents tbh. They’d already shown me they weren’t adults I could trust

I think it' quite sad a daughter saying don't tell dad tbh, an odd reaction. There's privacy, but there's also teaching young girls that periods aren't something to be ashamed of. Just don't make a big thing of it.

Did you miss the perfectly reasonable suggestions of instances where telling the father is desirable? Or are you just choosing to ignore them?

Yeah, the scenarios where dreadful unforeseen catastrophes occur where the child is unconscious in hospital and it's vital that the doctors know if she's started her periods and when she had her last one

I have two daughters, who spent a lot of time with their father as they grew up. It was never an issue. Once they started having periods they took supplies with them when they visited. Shockingly easy to arrange. Of course he would have known that at some stage they'd started to have periods, he wasn't a moron. Why would he need to be told, any more than I'd have needed another mother to tell me if one of DDs' friends was staying.

Storm in a teacup. Let girls have a bit of privacy.

But this is a really good thing for a child to practice setting her boundaries about. There are no disbenefits to the child in deciding that she wants to keep the fact that she has started her periods private from her father until she’s ready. Despite the contortions of some posters on here! It’s all about what the parents want- and the feelings of the man. It should be entirely up to the girl.

The "disbenefit" as you call it is to do with blurring boundaries by keeping something secret for no reason. No one is contorting your posts.

@Juells it isn't to do with ownership. If the parents provide the right kind of guidance then the child will grow up to be independent and happy. It has to be age appropriate. If the parents are too controlling or too lax the child is more likely to grow up and choose abusive relationships.

@BertrandRussell also, where you say It’s all about what the parents want- and the feelings of the man I would say that that is such an extreme contortion of what has been said to you here that you are effectively gaslighting when you say it.

keeping something secret

There we go with the 'secret' again. Privacy is not secrecy.

Yeah, the scenarios where dreadful unforeseen catastrophes occur where the child is unconscious in hospital and it's vital that the doctors know if she's started her periods and when she had her last one

You see the bit where I said “perfectly reasonable” 🙄

Shock horror, different families do things differently. I wouldn’t have felt happy for DD to be at her dad’s house and him not being aware.

Fortunately she is perfectly happy to be open about these things which for me is healthy and desirable. I also note that being open doesn’t have to equate to a lack of privacy.

@juell In this context it is a secret. It is not privacy, it is a secret.