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Original poster

I genuinely don't know how to deal with this

235 replies

KaleidoscopeEyes · 27/06/2019 01:17

I'm posting here for traffic.

I have a 22 year old daughter in Uni. She has a student loan as I'm in no position to support her financially, I work for minimum wage and things are beyond tight. She's going to be starting her second year soon.

I live with DP who has a daughter due to start uni in September. She lives with her mum and sees her dad and me often.

After she had been accepted for uni, her mum decided that she wasn't going to help dsd with the cost. She is a lawyer.

She has told dsd that she must say she lives with us so that we can advise student finance that we're both in low paid jobs and she can get financial assistance.

We've both had the email today for us to apply for the finance for dsd.

I can't do it. Firstly, it's fraud. Secondly, even if I did do it, and it was uncovered that we were lying, they might think I was lying when I applied for my own dd and take away her finance.

Wtf do we do?? Dsd has been in tears with her dad, he obviously doesn't want to scupper her chances, she has worked SO hard for this. But her mum is resolute, and I know she will not change her mind. I've been with DP for 8 years now, and I know who she is.

Does anyone have any advice please? I've name changed for this and I don't think I've left anything out. Thanks in advance if you can help.

OP posts:
Oliversmumsarmy · 03/07/2019 10:41

The problem you have is the 2nd year when they move into rented accommodation

Friend is on benefits and has very little income.

Her stbexh has stated in all divorce papers he has very little income also (well below £15,000)

Their Dd is going to start year 2 this Autumn.
They have a problem as neither of them can stand guarantor for the shared flat she wants to rent.

If you do not earn enough and the dm has said she doesn’t earn enough how is anyone supposed to stand guarantor for the Dsd renting somewhere the next year.

These things have a way of coming out in the wash.

I know my friend is struggling and to see how her Dd has had to fight for every crumb I am disgusted that people do this.

I would tell them both, your Dp and her mother that you are not signing or filling out any forms that are not 100% accurate and if they apply for this you will call the admissions people up and let them know they are committing fraud.

I would point out as a prosecutor the mother is trained into making people believe all sorts and both your Dp and his dsd need to take a step back and away from the mother so they can think clearly about what it is they are asking you to do and the consequences if they are found out. And not be manipulated by someone who has only her own interests at heart

swingofthings · 03/07/2019 10:57

What a lot of drama! I was in the ex situation, declaring DD living here would have meant lowest loan, living with her dad, she'd get the maximum. She'd always lived with me, school local, gp local, registered to vote at my address, but after her A levels finished, she started to spend much more time at her dads to the point of being close to 50/50. She called the helpline for the msintenance loan to ask for advice and they said that she could put either and change next year if it changed. They couldn't care less as it is a LOAN, that will need to be repaid. As already said, as it is, the place she spends the most time at when not at uni is her boyfriend anyway. Her dad and am had no issue at all giving their details.

For all you know your dad will indeed spend more time at yours during her breaks than her mum.

Fannybaws52 · 03/07/2019 11:00

Go with the front room idea but get a written agreement that you DH will be the primary/resident parent and claim child support!

No way should all the risk be yours and none of the reward.

Agree to do it but only when the lawyer ex provides a written agreement that DH is now resident parent.

That way you aren't committing fraud and you will get a wee bit of financial assistance yourselves.

Whosorrynow · 03/07/2019 11:04

I presume that a manipulative lawyer knows exactly how to skirt the law?
She sounds very difficult to deal with.

WomanLikeMeLM · 03/07/2019 11:10

You do not need to complete the application as it has nothing to do with you, but her father does. Failing that the poof girl is stuffed because of her selfish mother.

Tabbycatlove · 03/07/2019 11:40

Through what possible mechanism? This is bonkers! Of course calling them to clarify is sensible.

'Hi, my daughter lives with her Mum full time and has no intention of moving in with me but is it OK if we say she does on the form anyway to get the higher loan? My ex was told it was'

'Can we just take some details...'

Or he begins the lies straightaway by stating she might move in which isn't going to clarify anything regarding future risk to the OP's DD's loan if the fraud's discovered.

I'm sure he realises student finance did not tell his ex to lie and I think it's appalling he's putting this pressure on Op, knowing but not particularly caring her own DD's finance and studies could be at risk.

My opinion is OP should stand firm on saying no now, tell him that won't change and advise them all to get a move on with making the truthful application and agreeing other financial support. Presumably her loan will already be paid after her first bill for accommodation is due now so her parents will have to stump up the money for that between them already.

Alsohuman · 03/07/2019 11:54

The form says “if you live with them or rely on them financially”. As her dad pays maintenance, surely that would be construed as financial reliance? Particularly if he continues paying the maintenance directly to his daughter.

Fibbke · 03/07/2019 11:59

I think theres a lot of nonsense on this thread. It isnt fraud!! He's her father fgs. It would only be fraud if they weren't her actual parents!

Tabbycatlove · 03/07/2019 12:21

It is fraudulent to state the DSD lives with him at his and the OP's address when she doesn't even part of the time and has no actual intention of moving in.

So also fraudulent to have her loan award assessed on his and the OP's household income rather than her Mother and her DP's income.

Sounds like the Mum could provide more financial support to her daughter but won't which is something for them to work out. Either the DSD can afford to study Law at the Uni she wants or she can't.

The Op would be mad to risk having her own DD's essential higher loan taken away and have to watch her leave her studies.

ukgift2016 · 03/07/2019 12:31

@swingofthings is spot on. But lot people on here are being very self righteous. Lots of families do this.

If I was the mum, I be rolling my eyes and thinking you two are pathetic.

Also OP STOP bringing up your daughter, her student finance has nothing to do with your SD. Your using her to cement your part in this decision when it has nothing to do with YOU.

Fibbke · 03/07/2019 12:36

Yes another who cant see what the OPS dd has to do with this.

I really dont think it matters completely where your dsd lives. She still has two parents.

Fwiw I'd do the same as your dsds mother.

ScreamingLadySutch · 03/07/2019 12:59

Your DSD must get a student loan like your D has. Why is she different?

All our children have student loans and they have to get jobs and not rely on us for allowances.

This is how we teach our children financial literacy and taking responsibility for their lives.

It could be that lawyer Mum is the same type of mean parent. I wouldn't get into a row with her about it.

Tabbycatlove · 03/07/2019 13:01

Also OP STOP bringing up your daughter, her student finance has nothing to do with your SD. Your using her to cement your part in this decision when it has nothing to do with YOU.

Now that is ridiculous advice.

It has everything to do with the Op. She is being asked by her DP to commit fraud by signing to say her DSD lives permanently at their address and to have her DSDs loan award assessed on her lower salary so she's loaned more money.

Any investigation in to the DSDs address (presumably everything including her bank account is registered to her Mum's address and she's on the electoral roll there for credit searches) could easily lead to the Ops DDs loan being stopped as OP and her DP are investigated as a household.

Don't sign OP. Ultimately she's not going to get through the next few years without a decent amount of financial support from her Mum anyway. You can't do it all yourselves and if her Mum's this unwilling now she'll likely reduce financial support further as the course goes on.

pazwaz70 · 03/07/2019 13:15

Don't do it. You have to prove that she has is ' estranged' from her Mother. I'm sure you've got to show proof of estrangement etc.
Have a look on government website it explains everything about student finance.
I think her Mother is being an absolutely bitch for doing this to her Daughter. I wouldn't have dreamed of doing this.
We are supporting our Daughter through University as she only receives minimum maintenance loan. It's a struggle for us but we do it as she's our Daughter & it's what you do.

Cheeseandwin5 · 03/07/2019 13:29

There are many people who play the system and seem to come up trumps.
Myself I like to be honest on documents and put the correct information down. I know I may not get the benefits others get but my conscience is clear and hopefully it won't come and bite me in the ass later on.

Saying that I do hate it when others are dishonest and it goes in their favour.

Lessstressedhemum · 03/07/2019 13:51

My dh is a fraud investigator for the doc. Don't do any of this, it is fraud and could lead to your dad being made ineligible for student funding permanently as well as being placed on CIFAS for 6 years, affecti g her employment opportunities, ability to get a mortgage and all sorts of things.

You have no idea how wide ranging SLC fraud investigations are. They can and do access every area of your lives, your dsd's life, her mother's life.. it's not worth it.

Your dsd would have to prove that she was permanently estranged from her mum and that is easier said than done.

Lessstressedhemum · 03/07/2019 13:52

Doc= SLC. Dad = dsd

SavingSpaces2019 · 03/07/2019 14:01

Weirdly, dsd is very loyal to her mum. Imo she's pretty abusive, but dsd would definitely rather live in her house. They're much better off than us, and it's a better standard of living at that house.....She wasn't best pleased... She said that's what everyone does, all her mates have done the same. Don't believe a word of it

OP - you are being played by both DSD and her mum - and you know it!
DO NOT allow anyone to pressure you into doing something illegal and fraudulent that WILL come back to bite you on your arse....you should the ex well enough by now to know that she will take any opportunity to shaft you, and she will hold onto this 'secret' about you and she WILL use it as leverage in the future.

I wouldn't let DSd move into your front room either, She HAS a home!
Why should you and your dc be put through this?

Your DP needs to play hardball back instead of expecting you to keep taking shit from his ex and her antics.
If he's determined to have her move in - he can get his own place and forever be their whipping boy.

Alsohuman · 03/07/2019 14:42

As I pointed out upthread, a student doesn’t have to live with the means tested parent, the alternative is financial reliance. Which is true if her dad pays maintenance.

ThatssomebadhatHarry · 03/07/2019 14:43

When I applied for funding for uni I had been living on my own for two years but parents income was still counted. Wouldn’t they still take into consideration mums income unless there was clear evidence mum hadn’t contributed for a number of years?

Original poster
KaleidoscopeEyes · 03/07/2019 15:15

Ok, so we've just had a half hour long conversation with student finance. They categorically stated that if dsd moves in with us for a month, she can apply for finance under our address and our combined income. We asked if this would effect my dd's finance - absolutely not. We said that her mum has asked us to do this, and they said that's fine. We asked if this is fraudulent or breaking the law in any way, they said no. I'm utterly perplexed.

I recorded the call by the way.

For those of you that implied that this is nothing to do with me - you're wrong. Perhaps check your facts before piling in to give me a kicking when I'm confused and trying to do the right thing by everyone.

To everyone else, thanks so much for all your advice and support, I really appreciate it.

Although I am confused as hell Confused

OP posts:
Fibbke · 03/07/2019 15:18

Told you!

Fraud!

Whoever on here said they were a fraud inspector and this was categorically fraud was talking bollocks.

Original poster
KaleidoscopeEyes · 03/07/2019 15:21

Apparently all we have to do is ensure that she is on the electoral register at our house, and that her bank account is moved to this address.

I just don't get it. I've spent the last few weeks in turmoil and scared to death, when in fact it seems its perfectly ok to lie and cheat the system.

I feel like I'm going mad.

OP posts:
Fibbke · 03/07/2019 15:22

Because you are not lying or cheating - her dad is as much her parent as her mum so she can decide which one to apply from.

Her mum was correct.

Alsohuman · 03/07/2019 15:28

You’re not lying or cheating the system. You’re doing what the system allows hundreds, if not thousands, of families to do all the time.