In Law issues... am I being too sensitive?

[Peppergold]

Can you please offer me some advice.

DD is 14 months old and MIL asked to look after her on Saturday. BIL and SIL (DH's brothers wife) live with PIL but we have always made clear that when she's there it is PIL who are caring for her.

So in the morning SIL text me to ask what time we would be dropping DD off. I didn't message back as it's nothing to do with her. We had made arrangements with PIL that we would bring her round after her morning nap. We were then quizzed when we got there as to why I hadn't replied.

We came to pick DD up in the evening and it turned out that BIL and SIL had took DD out with them to meet some friends who have a child a similar age. They had no right to do this and I am really disappointed in PIL for going along with it.

On its own maybe it is childish of me to feel this way but none of them respect me as DD's Mum and SIL is too pushy. She has to involve her self in everything and I can't stand it. If I send MIL a photo of DD SIL tells MIL to forward it to her. I'm regularly told that I need to let SIL be more involved but I don't feel able to do this because I feel smothered.

At Christmas BIL and SIL bought PIL a calendar that had a photo of DD on for each month. Photos of DD with everyone but me! And a mug for MIL with "Grandma" on it surely this is stuff me and DH should buy, not SIL. She is constantly posting stuff about DD and picture online, if we all go out she obsesses over pushing the pram.

SIL interfered in the christening and then got pissed off when I wouldn't involve her in 1st birthday party. MIL and SIL seem to gang up on me yet they regularly talk behind each other's backs.

It just feels like they overstep the mark but no one sees it. So they tell me she's just being friendly etc. I don't know what to do about it, but it's making me feel upset and pushed into a corner.

Sorry it's so long.

Oh lovely, she's batshit and creepy. Get her one of these, it'll be worth every penny!

@LizzieLookAtTheFlowers They’re not her parents! She is NOT DH’s sister. She’s BIL’s wife.

@weleasewoderick22

Lizzie try reading all of the OP's posts

@Peppergold nope that doesn't sound silly at all. I think everyone giving you a hard time could do with reading that. You're entirely justified in feeling as you do.

@saraclara But it’s not BIL constantly overstepping the boundaries! That was just one example.

@UserUndone Yes I don’t think I can leave DD there while they are living there. Unless this magically gets sorted out after a talk but I think it will make things worse!

@Billben Thank you!!!

@ILoveYou3000 I really appreciate your support. And everyone’s support. It genuinely means a lot to me that I’m not being ridiculous to feel this way.

It feels as though SIL would only be happy if I give in and just let her and MIL dictate everything.

@FizzyGreenWater I can stand up to SIL. I just don’t want a big family row, it’s likely to end up with no one listening to me anyway and I just feel so resentful that I’ve been made to feel like this since becoming a Mum. That last bit makes me really upset tbh. Ever since DD was born this has been going on and it just feels like a constant battle. In the newborn days they were constantly saying I should go back to bed, they’d look after DD etc. And used to bloody compete with each other over who would feeding DD her bottle etc. I was called selfish one time for saying I wanted to feed DD myself when SIL wanted to do it.

Yep that's your first step.

'MIL thanks but we're fine for childcare, all it will mean is SIL smothering DD for the day, making sure she does a couple of nappy changes just to piss us off, takes a million selfies as quickly as she can while there's no risk of me being in them, then has a couple of digs at our parenting when we come to pick her up, haha.'

MIL 'Oh! What! Nooo you can't say such things about SIL, you need to involve her more, she means well blah blah'

You: 'No I don't. When you make it clear you can barely be bothered to pass the time of day with a child's parents, you generally end up not getting to spend so much time with that child, yes? Look, she's on a very sticky wicket right now and until she calms down with practically pushing me and DH out of the way to get to DD I'm backing right off. SHe's bloody rude and pushy, she practically ruined the christening, we're pretty sick of her tbh.'

Just bloody say it!

After reading all your posts, I’m more convinced now that your ail is out of order...

Sounds like she is letting her competitive streak put you down and undermine you by using your child, to gain status with your in laws..

It’s going to be very hard for you to be confrontational about it because if you show any form of insecurity you will be labeled as jealous or possessive and I don’t think you are handling the situation well yet, you will though.

I think you are being slightly passive aggressive because you are confused and have only instincts to go by... and are just protecting your feelings which your sil and mil are being deliberately dismissive about... it comes across as a bit passive aggressive even though I know you are just being protective of your feelings...

This won’t work until you are clear about the dynamics of the family and are feeling more secure about your daughter. You basically need your head space for that to happen and you need to stop being too passive with your mil...

If you feel uncomfortable, even if there is no reason at all, just say so.. say I’m uncomfortable with separating from my daughter for the time being... of they guilt you and label you and make you out to be possessive... they can suck it up, if they love your dd they need to know that her mum needs time to grow confidence too...

You are important.. you are allowed to handle things wrong because you are a mama figuring it out... so long as you aren’t harming your dd.. and in this case I don’t see you are wrong in many instances..

But because you are being so passive while you are figuring things out, you are piling on some resentment and eventually it’s coming out in wrong ways which won’t help you...

Come up with an excuse that allows you to not give in to their requests and distance yourselves from them... and only let them see dd when she is with you... without feeling any guilt

You've asked for advice. I can see why you feel upset about the gifts and if you have stipulated you don't want your BIL or SIL taking your baby out then that's understandable. I also understand having photos on social media without your authorisation, needs to be addressed sympathetically. As let's be fair none of us think like parents until we are them.
But AUBU about your SIL trying to create a relationship with your child and by extension you then honestly, yes. You have pointed out she is your BIL wife. That is harsh even if it is an accurate description for a dictionary. She is your SIL. Ok they didn't have much to do with you before your DD was born, babies bond families. That's part of their magic.
My bigger question is why don't you want to develop a relationship with her? You seem to be resisting it at every turn and that seems to be the main problem here and it's the part of the situation you have total control over - your attitude.
Please remember she is not a stranger, she is not someone you met last week - she is intended to be part of your family forever. Why would you not build a relationship with her? As the SIL already in the family you have the advantage and could direct the relationship. Are you jealous of her relationship with your PIL? Is something else bothering you? Maybe she didn't try but she seems to be trying now. Can you look at it from someone else point of view? That's what asking for advice is all about.

I can give you my experience. I was very young when I married and the eldest in my large family. I was baby-crazy but wanted to finish my education before I had children. My husband had older siblings which meant I became an auntie and a SIL overnight and I was so excited.

Looking back maybe I did over step some of the boundaries, offering to help with christenings and birthday parties, bring birthday cakes over, popping over on Christmas mornings to see them open their gifts from us, happy to babysit whenever they needed a babysitter. I loved bringing them gifts because I could, and taking them out and spoiling them because that's what my uncles and aunts who didn't have children did for me. I was also so excited to have older sisters as I had never had them. I was so eager to please and be accepted.
Yet, from what I've read on here I would be consider a groomer, overbearing and trying to take over their child.

To me it just seems tragic that a child, whom everyone seems to love, is caught in the middle of this adult drama which appears to be built on petty , low self-esteem issues from both sides. She's never going to take over, you're the mom! But raising children is hard (I have four) and the old saying of it takes a village is so true. Build your village - trust me friends are wonderful I have amazing friends but family will always be there. No one gets carers leave for their friend in an emergency - because its family that counts - it is who you will need to rely on at some point in your life.
Reading this I am so grateful for my SILs who accepted my behaviour at face value - someone who wanted to be involved in the family and their children lives. My nephew is now 23 and often pops over for dinner to see us. My nieces who live aboard have come over for long holidays and its been wonderful as do the UK nieces. Likewise I'm glad my teenage children have aunts and uncles they can turn too when they need a break from us and I know they are getting solid advice from someone we trust and who genuinely loves them.

So my advice is to use this as a wake up call. Spend time with your SIL. Be honest about your worries and most of all be kind. Assume the best. We tend to judge our own behaviour on our intentions but we judge others intentions on their behaviour, without thinking about what may have gone wrong in the execution of those intentions. Your gut is a great thing as a parent but don't assume that your own insecurities (we all have them) are the same as your gut!

I hope this hasn't offended you. I can see your anxieties but I also believe this situation can be solved simply by kindness, honesty and generosity with your SIL and yourself.

x

Ever since DD was born this has been going on and it just feels like a constant battle. In the newborn days they were constantly saying I should go back to bed, they’d look after DD etc. And used to bloody compete with each other over who would feeding DD her bottle etc. I was called selfish one time for saying I wanted to feed DD myself when SIL wanted to do it.

you. need. that. family. row.

NOW.

It's not up to them! They are not her parent! Not even your DH is happy with this!

Have the row. Fucking ENJOY the row! And end it with what I've just quoted above, finishing with - 'Let me spell this out, DD is OUR baby, either start respecting me as her mother, back off and accept that it's our baby OUR RULES or we will just take a break from all of you. A very long break.'

What are they going to do?

Sulk. Cry. Blame.

Water, here is the duck's back. Oh!! You seem to have SLIPPED OFF! Let me just give a fuck about that - oh, second thoughts, maybe not.

You're an adult. A mother.

GET RID OF THEM.

@FizzyGreenWater I am going to speak with DH and talk to them together. It just brings back memories of how helpless I felt in the early days too so then I feel vulnerable. I’m normally quite assertive but this situation is just bizarre and I feel unsure of myself.

@IABUQueen She is very competitive. We saved up for an expensive pram and the first thing she said when she saw it was it doesn’t look as good as you’d expect for the price we’d paid. And my parents bought the nursery furniture and she made spiteful comments about that as well. But she says things in such a nice way that I second guess myself if she really means it like that? Obviously after so much of it I now think she is doing it deliberately.

@Peppergold, I see, so she isn't a blood relative. Makes the presents a bit weirder I suppose, but depends how close she is to your in-laws. I love my husband's sister's children as much as I do my sister's children, it doesn't make a difference to me. I'm still their auntie.

SIL is obviously a bit of a try hard and an OTT person, but she doesn't seem dangerous or damaging to me.

Just tell MIL that you want to know who your child is with and when and ask her how you are supposed to trust her not to do things behind your back when she doesn't give you information or the right to veto plans intended for your child? That's totally reasonable, and that is MIL's fault rather than SIL's because MIL was in charge of your LO.

Moaning about the calendar is pointless, just make your own calendar with your own choice of photos if you want to. And it's best to assertively respond to SIL overstepping the mark in planning at the point at which it happens. "We have it in hand, if I need you to do anything I'll be sure to ask but I don't need any more help right now." Or give her a rubbishy job to shut her up.

The rest of it is irritating, but really, you can't make SIL less irritating to you, that's who she is. Maybe she will have kids soon and lose interest in yours.

@Singingfairy14 But I genuinely don’t think SIL wants a friendship with me or DH. She just wants to look like Aunty of the year to everyone else. Even in the past when I thought we were getting on well she’d make some snide comment. I basically think she puts me down to try and make herself feel better. And when this first started I was a new Mum and felt overwhelmed with everything so I wasn’t as tough as I should have been.

@LizzieLookAtTheFlowers She has nephews on her side on the family yet doesn’t seem particularly interested in them

She is very competitive. We saved up for an expensive pram and the first thing she said when she saw it was it doesn’t look as good as you’d expect for the price we’d paid. And my parents bought the nursery furniture and she made spiteful comments about that as well.

Op I’m so angry on your behalf. I think you have been way tooo passive....

You have built up sooo much resentment and that’s why many pp here are seeing the surface of it and judging you for how you react...

Someone on Mumsnet once told me.. building up resentment isn’t kind.

You have issues with boundaries. And your SIL is either naturally lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence or she is spiteful and pushy..

You need to be comfortable with repeating your boundaries in a non aggressive manner otherwise you would naturally shut down and feel insecure around her.

Let this be a wake up call. You have work to do on yourself.

I did and it really helped me. I was just like you Op. I blamed myself for feeling the way I do. Until I realized that no one needs to be blamed. I’m entitled to feel uncomfortable and even if people don’t mean to be spiteful I’m entitled to tell them when what they say seems offensive... kindly and politely.. to make them know their limits with me.

I don’t suggest taking the aggressive route as it will cause drama too much to handle.. I have a lot of resentment but a lot of it is because you didn’t know how to put up boundaries (I was like that too), and so any confrontation now might come out too aggressive from you or unreasonable.

So just focus on distancing yourself and slowly setting up kind and respectful boundaries until you are able to be around this pushy girl without feeling defenseless and violated..

You might be able to confront her or mil about what’s happened I’m christening slowly but first work your way into developing some confidence around this girl who quite clearly has form for overstepping boundaries and putting you down.

@IABUQueen Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I think I probably have been too soft with her and maybe all of them. I just remember being so excited that the nursery had been decorated and furnished. MIL asked to come over to look at it & PIL brought BIL & SIL along and afterwards I just felt rubbish that SIL has done it down. And especially felt sensitive because my Mum and Dad had saved hard as they wanted to buy us the furniture. If she has or does something good everyone has to be really positive. But anytime someone else has something good she tries to either play it down or is outright spiteful.

Ok, as per your last update...

I think she actually feels insecure.. she feels insecure probably about you having a closer bond with you PIL than her and about getting recognized for being the love of the life of their precious first grandchild.

She wants to take credit and be recognized for the same thing.. she doesn’t have kids yet and she is worried your in laws attention will be placed onto you because of the grandchild not on her.

She seems to just be insecure about her relationship with her mil. She is trying hard.. using your daughter.. and she is putting you down because you are an easy target... and by doing that she can keep the focus on herself being the amazing fun motherly figure around your child..

She definitely sounds competitive to me.. and you need to stop being an easy target .

She is probably unhappy and vulnerable around your in laws and trying hard to get their acknowledgement... I guess I don’t envy her having to live with them it must be hard...

She is being protective of her own relationship with them because she feels she has to.... she definitely doesn’t mind compromising you in the process ... a bit selfish.

If you put boundaries she will find it hard to gain their approval through infringing on you.. and will look for another way to do that... or face up her issues with them..

Let her deal with her own issues.. have empathy.., she is struggling and insecure around you. You and her probably being compared by in laws or she just generally is insecure around women in a similar place to her... she needs to deal with her issues...

Don’t let her put you down again and don’t let her undermine your parenting like that.

But don’t confront her. She is in denial and your in laws are enjoying the attention. Now is not the time to point out her petty behavior.

Just protect yourself

At first I thought she was your husbands sister and was going to say you are being silly but your husbands SIL... Well that's just weird. Does she not have children maybe she is jealous you had one first and is trying to prove to the in-laws she will make a better mother than you.
But yes she sounds annoying so you need to stop her. When she says something spiteful bring her up on it and ask what she means. No point in being polite.

@IABUQueen Thanks, I will think it all over. But I still think I want to talk to them and get it all out in the open.

@ambereeree Yes I definitely need to be more assertive. I just wish it wasn’t like this. And in the past when I’ve pulled her up on stuff it ends up me looking like the bad one. The last time I did MIL rang DH that evening and asked if everything was ok because I was in a bad mood and had spoiled things.

She has nephews on her side on the family yet doesn’t seem particularly interested in them confused

@Peppergold do you really know that for certain? Heard that from her sibling, seen her interacting with her nephews regularly enough to judge that? Look, these posts tend to go the same way. OP posts about a situation, people tell the OP they ABU actually, and then all this extra info comes out about how truly evil the person in the original tale actually is until enough people are convinced they're dealing with some twisted bitch who wants to steal your baby because she's a paedo (really? ).

I'm sure she's a PIA but I'm also sure there's a lot more to this than she purposefully wants to undermine you and make you feel bad and have a relationship with your daughter for no other reason than to spite you.

Granted, she is probably a bit jealous because the family dynamic has changed and you, bearer of the first grandchild, could become the golden DIL and PIL will become closer to you as a couple. She probably feels threatened by that, and has low self-esteem, and she is overcoming it by hyper involving herself in situations because she won't want to be left out.

Do you know anything about their plans to have children? Do they not want them, or are they trying and having difficulties or planning them eventually? This will all influence her behaviour here.

@LizzieLookAtTheFlowers I have NEVER said she is a bad person. Or suggested anything untoward in that way.

I think they want to have children. She used to go on about it, but then recently says she doesn’t know is she wants them. So who knows. But FIL has said he will not be happy if they have children while living with them.

@LizzieLookAtTheFlowers Yes I do know that about her nephews. She says herself she doesn’t have much to do with them & PIL say the same.

Then I’m afraid to say your gut instinct is right and your daughter is being used and SIL isn’t in the right place or frame of mind to be thinking about your daughters best interest and instead is consumed with herself and the attention she wants to get.

It’s not personal to u. But seeing how you have a responsibility to your daughters well being, I wouldn’t want my daughter to be with someone using her for their own ends, without being supervised.

So you were correct all along op.

Just need to dig through all the layers of resentment to be able to handle the situation in a kind and productive manner, and not be all defensive. You will get there in the end so long as you listen to your gut and let it guide you.

And just remember, you see all of this because you have instincts to guide you. But others might not.. they’re not the mother of your daughter.. and will need time to figure it out. So let things unravel with time while you are busy setting up the boundaries needed for you and your daughter.

Drama queens always expose themselves in the end.

@IABUQueen
I think you have nailed the SIL insecurities and there is a very huge chance she isn't aware of her behaviour in that light. After all @Peppergold hasn't been aware of the work you have advised she needs to do on herself. I also agree that angry confrontations and a family row are never a good idea - things get said in the heat of the moments which can't be unsaid.

@Peppergold I can understand your feelings and your thoughts - maybe she is trying to be aunt of the year, but you've based that all on your judgements of her behaviour based on what your intentions would be if you behaved like that. I was judged by a family member once - if she'd written on here at the height of her anger with me - it would have been grounds to section me and i'd have been condemned by everyone. But after sitting down and talking we realised that we wanted to get on and we had both misjudged the situation. If I see someone I think needs because they've been ill or had an ill child then I help, I roll my sleeves up and get stuck in. She saw that as me taking over, trying to may her look incapable and that thought had never entered my head - I just wanted to help.

If it is a big misunderstanding and lack of awareness from both of you then you will make amends and for many years to come be glad you tried to sort it. If she doesn't want to see other peoples opinion - well then you KNOW not just think you know. That will make it easier to put boundaries in place without wondering if you are doing the right thing.