I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

Who gives a shit how OP worded it?! A child was being dragged along the concrete whilst getting verbally abused for fucks sake!

sounds like the poor mum is at breaking point.

The behaviour the OP witnessed was child abuse. There are NO areas of grey with this kind of behaviour, ever. The adult is the one with the responsibility to maintain control over themselves and not be pushed so far over the edge as to resort to violence, no matter how serious the problems being experienced by the child. And it's not only her behaviour toward the elder child that is a problem here: the younger - a little toddler - was left alone on a grass verge putting him at serious risk, not least from oncoming traffic. There is a clear risk to those children of abuse, neglect and harm. The older child at least already has serious issues, and if this is the kind of 'parenting' she is regularly subjected to, there's little wonder.

Also, if the mother was at the end of her tether this is all the more reason why social services intervention is necessary. OP, you took the only course of action open to you to take. You might have been able to prevent something terrible. And there is no way, had I witnessed what you had witnessed, that I could stand aside and do nothing.

Yes Nesssie thats what id have been doing, staying with the two yr old to make sure they were safe.

Did you mean dragging the dcs actual legs on the ground (i.e. grazing them) or shoes?

The poor child. She hates school for some reason and noone is listening to her.

I was told by CAMHS and school staff that I should manhandle DD2 into school if that's what it took to get her in. Luckily I had the knowledge, skills and confidence to challenge this and other professionals backed me up when I said that would be dangerous and inappropriate.

I know a lot of parents who have been told that they need to force their desperately distressed child into school, that the child is fine once there and they are the problem, that they will be prosecuted if they don't force the child into school or that they will be investigated by social care and have all of their children removed if they don't send the child to school.

On top of this, the children, who look fine in school, are in meltdown at home, trashing the house, being physically aggressive to their siblings, refusing to get dressed, staying awake all night, clinging onto doorways and running away They are severely distressed and nobody is listening to them. Their behaviour is put down to inadequate parenting and it causes huge damage to the whole family.

It absolutely is abusive to treat the child in this way but, at the same time, this woman may be (loosely) following professional advice, have no idea of how to handle the behaviour, have no understanding of the reasons behind it and be terrified of losing both of her children.

It is no excuse for slamming a child into a gate but, maybe if you'd seen it, you would have seen a parent grabbing a child clumsily while trying to keep hold of her younger sibling, to prevent her from running into danger.

YANBU
If she can do that in such a public place then the mother must think it's normal to behave like that.

To all those pps who are saying the OP said the wrong thing, hindsight is a marvellous thing. She now knows what she Should have said, and we can all sit here in our cosy homes castigating her for what she said, but no one, absolutely no one knows what they would have said in that situation.
Regardless of what the child was doing by running off, she should not have been dragged in this way. The OP did the best she could in the circumstances and wil now follow it up with a call to SS (I hope). As for those who say 'poor mother' shame on you. Her actions are reprehensible and she needed to be called out on it.
You did the right thing OP.

The OP was upset and spoke in what she thought was an appropriate non confrontational way. She probably judged that the 7 year old was in more need of an intervention than the 2 year old.

Getting hit by a car was prob less of 2 evils.. Ring school and report it as safeguarding issue. They will only have to look for a girl with presumably skinned legs looking bloody traumatised...

The woman may be at breaking point, in which case she needs support bot ignoring whilst we all look the other way cos it's not our business.

Treating her child like thst every day or as a one of is not OK and isn't going to make things better long term.

Reporting it to school was the right thing. Girl can get support - presumably her legs were hurt so school will need to clean it up andso at least they'll know what happened. Hopefully Mum can also get support so she stops abusing her kids because she can't cope with them atm

Was the younger one in a pushchair or on foot?

All those people criticising the OP - it's so easy to judge when you weren't there and have no idea how you'd have reacted.

It's very easy to say 'Oh I'd have stepped in and offered to help or held the 2 year old" - when you're in that situation and someone is acting aggressively and is upsetting your children with her language, it's not always that straightforward!

Def email school with what you witnessed and what your neighbour said they witnessed.

What the hell are school doing to this poor child to make her this desperate to avoid it?

Hmmm tough one but I do think offering help would have been a wiser move in this instance and could have possibly descalated the situation for the child, instead of antagonizing her already antagonized mother.

Obviously we weren't there so it's hard to say without seeing the woman, which would make it easier to judge if she's a normal mum who snapped or if she's a certain "type" (i.e rough as fuck so doesn't think twice about screaming at her kids in public) either way reporting it is the right thing to do so the powers that be can decide what intervention, if any, is needed.

I would be judging up to my fucking eyeballs.

I actually think that saying it was upsetting you was the best way to address it OP, it made it the least confrontational.

I agree. If she treats her daughter like that, imagine what she might do to a stranger being direct with her about the treatment of her daughter.

Yanbu OP, I'd have gone for her personally. All the posters saying she's at breaking point and needs support, I assume you would all be first in line to offer it? Those poor children should be taken off that woman. She's a child abuser, end of.

I felt terrible for the 2 year old, who I watched on the grass verge to make sure he didn't run off. I also felt sorry for my own daughters who were clearly very upset with what they were seeing, but in all honesty, my concern mainly was with the child who was being dragged along the ground. That was my first concern. Me saying "I'm sorry but what you're doing (to your daughter) is really upsetting me" was coming from a place of concern for all involved. It's not something I thought out before hand. I said it in the heat of the moment.

Really pisses me off to see stupid parents dragging their DC into school who are obviously distressed. There is a reason the poor girl ran off up the road and also previously almost got hit by a car as she was so anxious to not go to school.

FFS why put your child through that? Sort out the reason they are school refusing first, move schools or home school.

YANBU and I would have used harsher words than the yours OP and I would have judged.

Make sure the school knows about what your neighbour saw as well.

easier to judge if she's a normal mum who snapped or if she's a certain "type" (i.e rough as fuck so doesn't think twice about screaming at her kids in public)
Oh so there's two types of mums. Rough, common looking ones who abuse their kids and normal ones who dress nice and would never even raise their voices. It'll be so much easier to spot abuse now!! I'll look for the rough abnormal ones and report them all for sure

And yes I'd say she's as 'rough as fuck' to quote a pp.

Crikey, you definitely did the right thing. I imagine her DD running off was a huge shock to her and she was frightened something bad would happen. It’s happened to me before when my DC were much younger and I was terrified. Definitely shouted at them but I didn’t get physical! Her reaction was rather extreme.

Soontobe60 Yes hindsight is a wonderful thing. Maybe that needs to apply to the mum as well?

I personally if I witnessed this would not have left the 2 year old alone. If I had been the mum, if someone had grabbed the 2 year old and made sure they were safe, I could then have dealt with the 7 year old more appropriately.

When he was younger my son was a runner. He still is really (he has ASN) only now I know he has more sense of direction than he did as a smaller child, it's less worrying.

Yes, it's terrifying and upsetting when they do it. Yes, you reach breaking point after it goes on for what seems like forever. But it doesn't make it acceptable to scream at and drag a child along the ground as described in the OP. Mum needs support, absolutely, and if reporting to the school helps her get it, then OP did the right thing. I also understand how in the heat of the moment you might not necessarily say the best thing to calm the situation. It happens.

wow can all the pp stop piling on op. She has done her best to deal with a very difficult and upsetting situation, by making it about her she avoided making things worse for the little girl. Of course her concern was for the children, she is clearly upset for the child and now not knowing what to do.

She did not make it all about her, she tried to intervene without confrontation. Seriously. The level of detail is probably caused by shock. Clearly the two year old is fine, and I am sure other parents were keeping an eye on him to keep him safe. The point of the post was to get some advice about what to do, and how she feels. Some of these posts are very unsupportive and unhelpful.