I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

OP you did the right thing. You challenged and reported. I'm sure it was upsetting to be involved but hopefully your intervention today will result in both the children and their Mum to getting some help.xx

You were right to speak to the school.

Your comment, as you say wasnt well thought out. It was statement about you and she could have easily turned on you for judging her.

I would follow up with an email to the school.

However, I do think yabu for going ho.e and gossiping with your neighbour. Your neighbour is also unreasonable for knowing the woman (she obviously does if she knew who you were talking about), seeing her throwing her daughter into a gate and just telling the leisure centre staff. Why would she not report that to Social Services?

“OMFG.

OP, you ignore every single idiot here who says you were in the wrong or who picks apart your choice of words in the moment.

You are absolutely utterly 100% right to speak up and to email the school with concerns, including what you heard from your neighbour.“

Could not have said it better. My mouth is open reading some of these replies! Unbelievable- no wonder so many children suffer abuse when we choose not to “see” it.

In the heat of the moment I’m not sure what I would have said. The important thing is you said (and did) something.

Hope you are okay OP. 💐

That child shouldn't be in school if that's what it takes to get her there. That mother shouldn't be doing home education though if she thinks this is an OK way to treat her child. Poor girl, I feel for her

I think people are being unfair to criticise what the OP said to the mother. It was said in the spur of the moment and perhaps not perfect but at least she spoke up! Many others would just walk on by, or be confrontational. I think you did well to keep your cool and were right to report it to the teacher.

My god OP. You did the right thing.

Please ignore the actual idiots who say the mums at breaking point as they obviously haven't read the whole thread or heard what your neighbour saw.

She might well be at breaking point in which case she needs help - or - her children need help to feel safe again.

If she is like this in public, then she is bound to be worse in private :-(

To those saying I'm making this all about me, the reason I am shaken up is because I am worried for this mum and (most importantly) her kids. I'm distressed by the whole situation. Me confronting the Mum wasn't for my benefit was it? I have done what I felt was in the best interests of the children. And in telling the school, I have set wheels in motion for this to be looked into. That was the first thing I took care of. I have then come on here to offload as I found the situation quite traumatic. Sorry it that makes me a bad person.

@Goldmardra I was lucky and had a very good friend step in to help me get my son to school.
He adored her and loved piggybacks, so she promised him that if he walked through the school gates she would give him a piggy back to the doors and hand him over to his TA.

I honestly don't know how i'd have managed otherwise!

@Aaarrgghh I had that fun, I just told them in the end, they could either have DS in school in what he was comfortable wearing (joggers and trainers and school polo shirt) or not at all, because I carefully choose my hills to die on, and uniform wasn't one I was willing to pick.

@whatthehellisthisplease
actually, she probably isn't, because you can bet the child is much happier and feels much safer at home.. hence the school refusing.

I found this tough reading, for a couple fo reasons. I also have a runner, we had to get police involved late last year when he ran off at the school gates and was nowhere to be seen. Thankfully he was found safe and well, but it was terrifying. I also have two year old and other children to consider in these circumstances, so very similar situation as desrcibed by OP.

Clearly mum is having issues and struggling, in my opinion she's crossed a line with the dragging and heated language. However it is not the OP's responsibility to offer help, a kindness yes, but it could also cause further agro, especially if you are not known to the woman or her kids. Please don't feel like you could have or should have helped, strangers are often forthcoming with me, and while that is nice, the passing nature of such interactions means that it's ultimately quite futile...what is needed is a solid support network working between the home, school and any other agencies involved.

Contacting school rather than direct to SS would be my advice, like the mum said they are already aware. Mum needs to be discussing possible transport assistance or possibly a gate greeter to avoid these problems. Funding might be an issue, but they won't know til they ask. It would probably also be of huge benefit to the mum if she was able to get some guidance on how to properly and safely restrain and guide her daughter, to reduce risk of injury to both parent and child.

As for the two year old, was it in a pushchair? Whether my little one wants to or not, he has to stay in the pram while his brother is with us, simply because I need to be able to safely park him somewhere should the other run. I also have a buggy board and other mobility helpers (everything from a lightweight scooter, to tethers). DS is a bit younger than the child mentioned, but there should be plenty or accessories for an older girl to help her along, and if her history is as bad as the mum claims, she should qualify for low rate mobility support. Perhaps mention these suggestion to the school if you're talking to them?

I think you did the right thing and I am surprised anyone would disagree. I'm all for being non judgmental if a child is behaving badly who knows what problems they may have? And I would be understanding if a parent was struggling but this woman was hurting her daughter and someone needs to step in if that happens.

I saw my neighbour and she is a lovely lady. I needed to talk over what had happened so I talked to her about it. She told me about the gate incident but neither of us know this ladies name or anything. Hence why she reported it to the leisure centre who said they would have CCTV footage. If I had been in my neighbours shoes, I would have tried to follow that up and definitely would have reported to social services but she obviously hasn't. All the more reason I think I should ensure I see this through and report separately to social services also.

You did the right thing op.
It sounds distressing for all involved, especially the girl.
My son has asd. He was a runner. I never felt the need to treat him like this.

Gingerginger2 I've been there too it's awful.

OP I think you did the right thing telling the school and hopefully they will get the family the help they need.

I was told to get my son in by any means necessary and I refused. We were threatened with prosecution and fines until the SENCO stepped in and helped us find ways of getting him in that weren't violent. A horrible amount of pressure is put on parents to get their kids in and sometimes it breaks you. I'm not excusing the mums behaviour but understanding it is the start of undoing it.

There's a lot of assuming on here that the mum is just struggling, is trying her best, and just needs 'support'

But maybe she is a vile child abuser and suffers no remorse whatsoever?

They're out there, and you can bet there's been one standing near you in the playground from time to time!

Anyone pouncing on you for your phrasing, clearly you were in the moment and no one has a script for this sort of situation. It sounds like you wanted to say something, and maybe trying to keep it calm. For what it’s worth, I think you did right. Yes the mum is stressed but by reporting, hopefully she will be given the time and support needed so that her children can feel safer and this stops. The main thing is those children and that mum will hopefully get the support needed to stop this escalating even further. You spoke up. Fair play to you.

As an ex teacher I'd have intervened in a non confrontational way (probably said are you OK can I help) as she's clearly at the end of her tether & has snapped . But at least you've told the school. Things shouldn't get to that point with school refusal. A plan for the child to come in earlier when it's quiet & be met by a TA or teacher to settle them in should be in place: & other issues that may be in play or fueling it should be being addressed (learning issues, home life issues etc).

You should have offered help instead of sticking the knife in and making the situation worse.

You are judging her for getting her child into school.

You would have judged her for not getting the child to school.

You would have judged her for letting the child run into the road.

If she has a difficult child, she’s probably tired of being judged. How do you propose she dealt with it?

She didn’t handle a difficult situation well, but you don’t know the child. By all means report it, but having a go at the mother in front of all the children is never going to help the situation.

I also want to add this;

I was once that child, and no one stuck up for me. I wish someone had stepped in, but no one did. My mum wouldn't have done that in public, but guaranteed my neighbours knew what was going on. I've had so many problems because of how I was treated. How could I stand by and watch that and not say anything?

My eldest is almost 6. I've seen many mums at the end of their tether the last 6 years, and I understand the frustration that goes along with parenthood, particularly when there are special needs involved. But there was something I found quite chilling about that mum this morning. Something very familiar that I have seen so many times through my own eyes. I could not forgive myself if I didn't do anything to help.

If she really is nothing more than a mum at breaking point, then she needs support and she needs it soon. If that's not the case and she is just a horrible, abusive mother, then I know I've tried to do something to help those poor kids. Breaks my heart 💔

To be fair saying "it's really upsetting me" might have been a good option, as at least you deflected it onto yourself, if you had of criticized her parenting at that moment in time it might have escalated, for the worse. Not much else you could have done in this situation.

Absolutely what she did in choosing to drag her child was absolutely wrong, 100%, but can we not call her a child abuser.. unless you've been there, unless you've had to deal with that, you have absolutely no fucking idea what its like.

But it was child abuse. What are you suggesting it should more appropriately be called? Soft play?

I'm aware the above statement sounds harsh, PP, but I make no apology for that and will explain why. Of course I'm sorry for parents in this horrendous situation - having to deal with these kinds of challenges on a daily basis is wearing, exhausting, and would fray the nerves of anyone - but do you not see the dangers in downplaying what amounts to such harmful behaviour as this? What this mother did resulted in painful injuries (and I dread to think of the psychological ones) to one child and neglect of the other, putting him at immediate risk of harm from traffic? Dialling back the description 'child abuse' doesn't, I'm afraid, make behaviour like this it any less child abuse. It's imperative that people recognise and call this as exactly what it is. Any other response potentially desensitizes the seriousness of the situation, would make bystanders more inclined to overlook it, and thus put already vulnerable children at increased risk.

Children are more vulnerable than adults. And if we're inclined to direct our sympathies toward the frazzled adults as opposed to the at-risk children, the people in greater need of protection end up overlooked. There are occasions when being an 'interferer' crosses over into 'concerned citizen', and who knows what different outcome might have been possible if Baby P and his ilk had had one of the latter breed looking out for them.

What happens the next time this mum 'at the end of her tether?' She needs help. Which is precisely why the OP made absolutely the right choice.

I've had a school refuser. He was signed off by GP while I tried to get school to deal with the issues that were making him refuse school. When it was clear they weren't going to, I had to home school until I found a provision that he was happy to go to.

There's no way I would cause my DC such distress that they would run into a road and almost get hit by a car, potentially being killed, just for the sake of the school's bloody attendance figures!

Some parents have no common sense, and are horrible to boot, like the woman in the OP sounds.

OP please ignore the idiots on this thread. You've acknowledged that your wording wasn't perfect (most peoples wouldn't be in the heat of the moment), but it's obvious from your posts that you felt for this child.

Report without judgement- seriously?! Ffs, I will judge any adult dragging a small child along the ground whilst screaming at them, regardless of the child's behaviour or their shitty day. Judgement leads to decisions being made.

This is always going to be a challenging situation for all involved.

You have spoken up, and to the school and all you can do is hope the family gets the help - whatever it is - that they need.

As the parent of a child who does refuse school at times it is bloody hard. You know the other parents are watching you. The school is breathing down your neck to make sure attendance is good whilst simultaneously providing an environment which, for whatever reason, is distressing to the child and to top it off responds with 'well they're fine in school'. Implying I'm a shit parent.

At some point you stop caring what other parents think when you've had to carry your kicking, screaming child into school for the nth time. Because you know they will judge that snapshot.

That's not to say don't report it. Do. Always. Each and every time. Because without other parents sticking their noses in, no one is getting a full picture of what is going on. It might be that the child needs assessment and ongoing support. It might be that the family need help or it might be that the child is being abused.

I've reported a child to school when they were walking home, complaining of being sore and not feeling well. This was a small part of a much bigger picture of a family who were not getting much needed medical treatment for their kids because of other issues which were happening at home. They've since had SS involvement and are doing much better. Mum still complains about it to anyone who will listen. But the child is looking much healthier and happier these days.

I'm assuming the woman was holding the 2 year old as I haven't read that it was in a buggy.
I am genuinely curious as to what you thing she should have done, she pulled the child along by its back pack, not her arm or any other part of the body.
She ran after her child to stop her from getting hurt after she was almost hit by a car before.
She shouted at her for doing so.
Im not saying I would have done it but I think it's a big jump to the mother being an abuser.
You can't know if what your neighbor has told you is true, first of all neither of you even know her name so it could be different people and you never saw it happen.
You did what you felt was right in reporting it as I'm sure most people would have done.
I don't feel like you should have said anything to the mother, you don't know her, you were at the school so I would have just reported it and left it at that, sure follow up but don't gossip with neighbors about it.