I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

You were right to report this, this is a Safeguarding concern and the school must act. I also suggest you put your concern in writing and address this to the Designated Safeguarding Officer at the school. Based on what you’ve said, it sounds horrific and whether your words to the mother were appropriate or not, the fact is you reported your concerns and that’s the right thing to do.

We obviously don’t know the full circumstances, but the school could offer support at the front gate (for example) to assist with getting the child into school in a positive, calm manner. Strategies like this can make a huge difference. As for those who have told the OP she is BU, I refer you to case studies in respect of Climbie, Pelka and so many others. If only the many, many grown-ups involved in their worlds had reported their concerns.

These dc sound absolutely in control of themselves, extreme, but in control.

They shouldn't be forced into regular school at such cost to themselves, it sounds horrendous

My dd isn't in control of herself when she is in meltdown. You can see. You is mortified afterwards, gets quite upset at having hurt us. Her emotions overwhelm her, she loses any ability she had to communicate. Quite often as a meltdown is subsiding she reverts to baby type language, or picture/action communication.

What else can we do for school? She doesn't have an EHCP (because her behaviour is mostly fine in school as she masks), there is no money for special schools, the places are unbelieveably limited and most do not cater for children with ASD who are academically able, but struggle with social and emotional issues.

My dd deserves an education, I cannot afford to give up work, despite what many Mnetters believe about "cutting back". Without my salary we would default on the mortgage.

I suggest you do a little bit of reading on ASD and masking, before you make sweeping statements about "being in control". That control comes at enormous cost to her mental health.

@FundamentallyTired That's how it is for our DD1. She's finally going to be assessed for an EHCP, but we've had to fight for it! It's been very frustrating. The school are only agreeing now that we have more evidence from her therapist, which we accessed through Post Adoption Support.

It's one area where adopted children get more help; my DDis and DBIL are having a very difficult time getting help for their 8 year old bio DS. Their adopted DS qualifies for the pupil premium whereas their bio DS doesn't, though at this stage their adopted DS is doing really well (starts school in September), much like my DD2.

DD1 definitely doesn't need a special school; the whole point is that she masks the behaviour in school. She's quite happy to go there now, despite her very difficult delaying tactics most mornings.

I hope you manage to get the help your DD needs, it's so hard to see them struggle, isn't it?

fine in school as she masks and that masking comes at huge cost to her.

I am simply making an observation.

1. That she can very effectively control it
2. That whilst being in school and 'masking' or controlling herself (which all dc do to varying degrees) is, you say, at great cost to her.

I dont need to read up all about it. It was just an observation, and as ive stated its not an area of expertise for me,neither is MN generally an area of expertise for this, unless on the particular board for this, which might be the best place for it.

I know people post here for traffic,but its a specialist area for discussion.

School demands high standards of behaviour for the safe management and general socialisation benefits of all, but dc are exhusted/anxious as a result, all of them need to have a kick back at the end of the school day (to varying degrees, but they all benefit ime)

I am simply making an observation.

1. That she can very effectively control it

You are making a misjudgement by assuming that the child has a choice over where they are able to express their distress.

If you speak to young people who mask, you find that they are unable to communicate or to show their emotions in school, not that they choose not to. They don't have control any more than a child with selective mutism is able to exert control over where they speak.

These children don't choose to put themselves through harmful experiences. They have a social communication disorder that prevents them from expressing their emotions where they don't feel safe. As soon as they reach a point where they do feel safe, they are suddenly free to release the pressure and they are often unable to control the violence of their outbursts.

Not being able to control how and where you are able to communicate is incredibly distressing and the damaging impact on children should never be underestimated. To imply that there is an element of choice is to do these children a great disservice.

I am merely stating that she controls it. Very effectively. Shes making clear judgements about her circumstances, and the effect this might have on her.

Not misjudging,no. I have taken what others have written.

She should be safe in school, and is.

What youve written, and the arguments ive heard expressed dont really make sense. They contradict each other.

I am merely stating that she controls it.

You cannot know that she controls it.

She said dd controls it!

You are saying that these child are in control.

Children who mask to the detriment of their well-being are not in control. That implies that they are choosing to do so. They hold their emotional responses in because they have no choice.

Going in circles.

I've never said my dd controls it. Who are you referring too?

Your dd is in control of herself = you stated her ability to differentiate /choose between situations to have meltdowns,like all dc do.
(Not at school/not to dh).

That’s not about being in control. It’s called masking, then there is something known as the coke bottle effect where basically it’s like a shaking a coke bottle all day and then releasing the lid and if all comes out.

You know Op at least you said something people all to frequently say nothing and carry on while a child is being abused. The mum may very stressed but the first and foremost concern is the welfare of the child. Legally we have a joint responsibility to safeguard children that is we ha e a duty enshrined in law to share concerns even if that means an uncomfortable witht the involved adults. I hope the authority become involved they may be able to offer support for the mums parenting.

@TruthOnTrial I hope to god you aren't a teacher!

Sirzy Yes it is about being in control. It is what most kids do. They get angry or upset and are in a situation where they can not fully show it, but it comes out later. Adults do this too. It is normal behaviour.

It's not the same. Masking is different to losing control over a situation.

She doesn't choose. She isn't choosing, she has no control over where she let's out or masks.

I wish you could see her distress and when she is suicidal because she can't control, manage or understand her feelings.

I find that a really rude comment mandra

I hear you using a term 'masking', but its no different to all other dc and adults too.

I do have dc, and have seen it first hand. Dc pulling their hair out literally, hitting, biting, screaming, etc. Whenever there were any issues at schools (of bullying, or falling outs) behaviour became appalling and unmanageable. Not to school, not to teachers, not to dh, but to me; even as young adults now, its a tell-tale of something awry

Were your children suicidal at age 6? But maybe you are right and the Consultant Clinical Psychologist and SALT that diagnosed her are wrong.

But my daughter does it every time we try to leave the house, get in the car, getting into the shower. Even if we are going somewhere she really wants to go. Because transitions from one thing to another cause such extreme anxiety in her.

I have a NT son, and yes his behaviour changes when something is up. This isn't the same. This is daily, even when things are going relatively well. Even when doing her very favourite things.

And masking is human, everyone does it to an extent. But my daughter doesn't find anything natural about social situations like school. So she has learnt to copy what everyone else does. So her whole day is her pretending to be normal. And that is exhausting.

Imagine pretending to do a certain accent all the time, and certain mannerisms that weren't natural to you. Now imagine living in a world where everyone seems to understand each other, facial expressions, turns of phrase body language and you have no clue what is going on. You try and follow along and copy what they are doing, you even mange to pick up a few words. That's her life.

The biggest contributor to autistic burn out and self harm and suicide is the constant pressure and effort to fit in to NT behaviours and hide the autistic traits.

I would be worried and furious if my kid ran off near traffic and I would be very annoyed and frustrated if they refused school every day. But. Screaming at a child and dragging a child along the floor their bag is not acceptable and she needs to hear that. I wouldn’t have said it was upsetting me, I would have said stop bullying your child or I will call the police.

We’ve all had difficult moments with our kids but that crosses a line IMO. The fact a neighbour has seen similar abusive and bullying behaviour shows that this isn’t just a “snapshot”.

Truth, you really have no idea what you are talking about.

I really have no idea what you are talking about. I said they are exertibg their own control or similar. So why you would attempt to accuse me of ...what was it...something to do with your psychologist and diagnosis.

None other of which ive said.

Blimey!