I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

I can’t believe how many people are sticking up for the Mum and excusing her disgusting behaviour. That poor child. I absolutely hate hearing people shouting or speaking disrespectfully to their children. Or not acknowledging their distress. Being stressed out is not a justification for not approaching a problem with kindness, tolerance and patience. You were completely right to challenge her. I never know what to do in those situations and it takes courage to intervene. But I find it heartbreaking too and have complete sympathy for you, your children and her children for being caught up in this distressing situation.

Weird bunch on Mumsnet.
Give little Jimmy something non-organic or, God forbid, junk food, and they have a fit of the vapours.
Talk about child abuse - which is what it was - and it's all (pious face) 'Aw...she's at the end of her tether. Why didn't you help? Why were you upset?'
I exaggerate, of course, but not much.

Poor kid.

I haven’t read all 6 pages of the thread, so I may have missed something crucial, but based on your first post, it sounds like the mum may well be at breaking point. But if no one knows she is there, she won’t get any help from anywhere. So, you need to report this incident to someone so she is flagged up on the system. I suggest speaking to the safeguarding lead at school (this information should be widely known at school and if you don’t know who it is, it shouldn’t be too difficult to find out who they are - check their website or ask in the office). You can also phone the child protection team for you area. Where I am it’s called first response, I’m not sure if it is called that nationwide though, so google child protection for your county. Our area has early help programmes available, to give advice on behaviour and other issues and schools and child care settings can refer in to those services.

Being a parent is really hard work, but some circumstances make it even harder and it sounds like this parent needs an extra hand to help her through.

Wow Miss Judgy in her perfect parent pants!! How about ask the mum if she needs help rather than chastising her - you are totally over reacting and tbh can’t believe you think this is worthy of posting

macblank THIS ^^

I don’t think you’re unreasonable for reporting it, I do think saying it upset you is unreasonable. It would have probably been a lot more effective to say, ‘stop it, you’re hurting her - can I help?’ Because if she’s angry someone stopping her and getting her to realise she’s hurting her childwith an offer of help is going to be more of an eye opener and also more straightforward than saying it upsets you - because if she’s that angry she is not going to give one iota about your feelings and why should she. From what you added about shoving her into a fence it does sound like a full on abuse situation so well done for reporting.

Lots said on here, so I am just coming on to say well done to the op, you did the best you could which was also the right thing (sod the "wording"). you reported what was clearly child abuse and the right people can now deal appropriately. I am astounded at the criticism on here, please ignore all of it, child safety must ALWAYS come first. And finally, you do not own anyone detailed explanation or justifications, haters and doubters cannot be reasoned with, do not give them any more headspace. Well done for stepping in

I am so shocked with some of these comments. The op was trying to sort her own children out and she witnessed some really harsh behaviour.
The responses of you shouldn't judge. Your judging the Op.
A parent should not treat a child like that at all.

I think it's silly critiquing your language choice in this situation. You were in shock and just said the first thing you could - and it could have been a lot more combative, escalating things, so I think you did fine.

I would absolutely report to SS and ask your neighbour to do likewise. It's a myth that they remove kids (frankly, they often wait too long) for no reason; they are far, far more likely to try a lot of interventions and support, and that poor child needs help.

I do get how hard parenting can be. My eldest is ASD and has been very dysregulated at times. That doesn't mean I could abuse him at will and that be okay. Someone needs to step in to protect the child.

I think flagging it up to school was very wise. I don't think saying what you said to the mother was helpful, but I think you're well aware of that and sometimes things just slip out. I do feel for the mother too, she handled it wrongly but she still obviously needs some help. Hopefully it being flagged up will help her to get that help.

You did exactly the right thing to report it. The mum may well have been at breaking point. If she is, all the more reason that people are made aware. Hopefully now the reasons for her not coping and her child running away/ not wanting to go to school will at least be explored. Maybe it was her losing her cool. Maybe she has done it before and the authorities are aware. If in doubt,report and then let others make that judgement. As an aside, I think that the OP has been given a rather hard time for some poorly chosen words in a difficult/anxious situation.

The mother has a mental health issue, she needs help. Isn't it interesting though that we can shout, get angry etc with our own children and think that it is fine because you have asked them to do or not do something for the 100th time BUT when seeing another child being shouted at, we feel a need to rescue them.
It's more than frustrating when you have asked and asked a child and they still don't listen. Maybe she has no other support in her life. Don't judge.

You completely done the right thing. I can’t believe other people are contesting that.

Literally can’t believe how many people are criticising the op here - no doubt the same people who will be up in arms when the next high profile child abuse death hits the headlines - calling for social workers teachers doctors and the like to all be jailed for not preventing it. Seriously idiotic views. Op yabu.

Op YaNbu!

I have manhandled a hysterical child into school. Was told by the medics that I had to or she would never get well, was told by the school that SS were keeping an eye on us. It was stressful. And in hindsight it was wrong.

But it was not the OP described: the fury, the serious risk of hurting the child by dragging her, the slamming her into a metal gate. That is very worrying.

I imagine those saying it's an over-reaction have missed the updates? Because if not, then they think throwing a young child face forward into steel gates, abandoning a 2 year old on a grass verge to chase after a bolter without quickly asking any bystanding parent to mind them, and lifting a child by the straps of their backpack and dragging them so their shins are scraping on a path is OK? Something we all do? Really? Somehow I don't think so.

Your child is not your property, this behaviour is not covered by the reasonable chastisement defence, and what you are therefore defending is assault against a primary aged child. Being a parent doesn't mean you can do this and it be okay - would you be fine with it if you saw someone doing it to your own child? You do realise that the behaviour described above would be against the law if someone did it to a dog? But it's okay with a child?

Physically dragging a kid into school is awful but normal. Dragging them along with knees scraping the ground, overcome with rage, not so much.

And of course she probably can't cope, and needs help. Very little abuse is malicious or calculated. Most is from people overwhelmed by parenting, which is precisely why reporting, and getting support in place so she can manage these situations better, is important.

@corythatwas totally agree. I hate it when people do that, but I know it's just a difference of view, and schools often tell parents to so people feel like it's their only option. That's normal. This... is so, so not the same.

You did the right thing. Poor kid.

I know what you’re saying about how she was dragging her daughter along the ground. It’s not difficult to understand. That is not an acceptable way to treat a child, no matter who is doing it or how at the end of their tether they might be.

You absolutely did the right thing in confronting her about it.

You need to refer this to the appropriate body, for that little girl’s sake. The mother clearly needs support, or worse may happen next time.

Many years ago I witnessed the most awful treatment of a child. The father was in the car. Boy about 7 sat in front passenger seat. Father had his nose touching the boys and was SCREAMING in his face. Absolutely screaming in rage as though he was facing up to him and about to headbutt him. I stood and watched, not knowing exactly what to do (I was early twenties). Another elderly couple also stopped and stood there watching. The man got out of the car and became very aggressive with us, so we had to back away a bit (this was before mobile phones were commonplace so no chance of phoning for help or taking photos). The man went into a shop, had a cooling down opportunity, then got straight back into the car and started yelling/facing up to his child again. It was like watching a man picking a fight/about to kick off in a nightclub. I ran straight home, repeating the car registration over and over again. I called the police but could only remember the first four digits and the colour/description of the car. Apparently they couldn't look it up on the database. They just seemed so disinterested. No concern or wanting to follow it up on CCTV (which was in the shop). Called NSPCC and they said that it was a police matter. I still wonder about that poor kid. Now, being older and a mother, I would have no qualms about intervening more readily.

You don’t need to be concerned any further. You reported it to school and they said they’d follow it up. Plus the mum told you school were already aware. It is in hand. People struggle.

OP you did the right thing. As advised earlier it's worth following up with an email to school about what happened including as much detail as you can. It sounds likely that will provide part of a bigger picture of the family.

I'm so sorry nobody ever did the right thing for you as a child.

Oh, and in safeguarding training, we are always told to "listen to our gut instinct" which is exactly what you have done.