I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

Wow only had time to read the first few pages but can't believe all the posters defending the mother and not bothering about a child who's legs are being dragged along the concrete. It sounds like the mum is having a terrible time but there must be a better way of dealing with it.

Well done OP for reporting and for challenging the mother on this. It was brave and you had the girls best interests at heart. I would agree with PP who suggested you email with the additional info from your neighbour, provided you are confident it’s true (i.e. not exaggerated for gossip).

The mother may well be at breaking point, for a whole variety of reasons. However, that really does not excuse the way she dealt with it- physically manhandling your child in the way described is not appropriate. The child may have SEN or emotional/mental health issues, or things may not be good at home causing her to act out. Who knows, but regardless dragging her across the concrete so she is scraping her legs and yelling like a banshee for long periods isn’t going to improve matters.

If the neighbour is correct about her pushing the child face first into a gate, that is physical abuse. There is never an excuse for that and all this “poor mum must be at the end of her tether, don’t judge her” “ keep out of it” is exactly how parents who do abuse their children get away with it and children get in left in awful situation.

I probably wouldn’t have couched it in terms of seeing this being upsetting to me, but I think OP was right to say that this didn’t look ok and to report it. Maybe this mum is just in need of more support, as she clearly isn’t managing well if this is how she deals with matters, rather than being an abusive parent- but who knows? Perhaps pointing out that her behaviour wasn’t great will make her step back and take stock. Or having it reported might mean she gets some more support from school/social work etc.

I know that if a similar situation were reported to me (hcp) I would be duty bound to raise a child protection referral.

Of course it’s abusive.

No thanks excuses. Poor child. You did the right thing OP.

No excuses, I meant. Phone added thanks.

It’s so hard being a mum and we don’t know all the facts but think she can treat her children like this in front of other people makes me wonder what she could do behind closed doors. Hope this family gets some support if that’s what is needed

Make an anonymous referral to Social services or go to the lead child protection / safeguarding teacher at school. That's what they're there for. Pretty horrible thing to witness for you & your children

Surely the school should be doing more?!?

Anyone can make a referral to Social Services. This may be a small piece of a bigger picture. The school will be obliged to act on what you've told them but you could also search for the Multi-Agency Referral Unit (MARU) of your county council if you are worried.

If a man got stressed at his partner in the street and treated her the way the mother did her child then would it be ok? No. How the mother acted is not ok, but yes she must have a bad time of it probably every school morning. All mum's have been there at some point. It's awful to hear a parent screaming at their child. The school needed to know, but also she clearly needs some help in dealing with it. Parenting is not easy. I don't see how you made it about you with your comment though. What you probably meant was it's upsetting to see a child treated that way and you're right. Most people wouldn't have said or done anything in that situation so well done

Wow shocked a bit .... can understand the “child abuse” comments to a degree but obviously none of you have had to deal with a child who is completely out of control either.... my brother would kick, scream, fight and cry trying to get out of school.... my mum tried being understanding, then being gradually more forceful as it went on and she was completely at the end of her tether. In a way the mum is right forcing her in there, my brother was given home tutoring in the end as recommended by the ea and therapists but it made him worse and now he is a bit of a hermit .... my mum said if she could go back she would have pushed even more for him to stay in school.

I feel for the mother. Yesterday afternoon I had to help my sister manhandle my nephew who has most definite SEN and mental health issues, who was the same age as the child the question here, to carry him home. I had my own daughter, four, and my other niece, same age, who we had to leave by a gate, to run after my nephew who, also like the OP's scenario, was running off and behaving dangerously, trying to throw himself in front of cars.

We did not shout at him or hurt him, but I've got no doubt that we had a lot of judgment from other parents about how we had to hold him between us to walk him home. Thankfully I was there, my sister would have been unable to get him home by herself, and if she had, I've got no doubt that she would effectively had to have dragged him home.

This is something she deals with everyday. No one offered to help us, and the school, are sympathetic but do not see the worst of his meltdowns. Someone above said that being hit by a car would have been the lesser of two evils... that's just nonsense, being hit by a car would have had the potential to kill my nephew, and the poor girl in OP's post, being dragged home would not have done.

None of us can say whether or not how the mother behaved was proportional because we weren't there, but I agree with others, that your first instinct should have been to offer to help not judgement. You could still have reported afterwards, the mother might be thankful of others being able to her up with the school/social, but a bit of compassion, wouldn't have gone amiss.

The child may have SEN or emotional/mental health issues, or things may not be good at home causing her to act out ...

...As might the mother!

You reported it op - right thing to do. Judge no further, you just know the whole story, we all have a breaking point.

As for you friend reporting the gate incident to play workers / why? She should have contacted either the school or social services.

Blimey if this had been a dad dragging his daughter across the playground would we all be saying poor man he must be at the end of his tether.

Well done OP for reporting it to the school. I’m a great believer that what goes on outside will always be worse behind closed doors.

You did the right thing, yes it might not have been the right thing to say, but in the moment it can be hard to pick the correct phrase - what you said sounds like you were trying not to inflame it by saying something directly about her.

You did right, by speaking to the school, I personally wouldn't have confronted the mum. Maybe try and follow up with the school next week, maybe social services need including but only by the school getting involved.

What the hell are school doing to this poor child to make her this desperate to avoid it

The school don't need to be doing anything wrong for a child to be distressed at going to school. Some children just can't do it.

If you are so shaken by the incident why didn't you speak to the teacher at the time? Were there teachers watching? Who did you report it to when you got home?

It sounds awful but perhaps asking if you could help would have been better.

I'm also aghast at the "just a snapshot", "end of tether", "don't judge" posts. Do those posters also use these excuses in response to verbally and physically abusive behaviour towards other adults? I imagine they don't, or that they at least keep them to themselves.

I have a (very chubby/heavy) 7 year old 'runner', and I'm physically disabled. It is fucking hard to keep hold of him when he's having a meltdown because he's been prevented from legging it, but I've always managed to do it without abusing him, as has my husband and his nanny. Once, I sat on the floor in the middle of a busy town centre to keep hold of him while he repeatedly tried to headbutt me (and succeeded a few times). Nobody accosted me, I was only offered help. People manage these situations all of the time with disabled children without behaving like absolute knobs, making the situation worse for their children and drawing criticism from bystanders.

I would if offered her some help - she was obviously at breaking point. She’s probably very upset at the situation and embarrassed too.

Sorry, posted too soon.
Almost everyone who abuses their child feels 'at the end of their tether', it doesn't change the result for the child. Most people who abuse their children are not 'bad' people, and defining this mother's behaviour as abusive does not require her to be so. There is often some sort of difficult victim behaviour preceding child abuse - rarely are victims 'perfect' angels shivering silently in a corner - it doesn't negate the harm caused by parental mistreatment.

This mum's behaviour was completely unacceptable, and making excuses for it/ignoring it could support a damaging 'desperate times calls for desperate measures' mentality. I think the op did the right thing.

If you are so shaken by the incident why didn't you speak to the teacher at the time? Were there teachers watching? Who did you report it to when you got home?

Maybe try reading the thread?

But I'll summarise for you:

I spoke to a teacher straight after the incident.
There were no teachers watching. None of the classroom windows point in that direction of the playground.
I didn't report it to anyone when I got home.