I've had an altercation at the school gate this morning and I'm shaken up!

[NotStrongYet]

I was on my way into school early. It's school photos day so those with siblings could arrive early for a sibling shoot. I parked up and got the kids out of the car and all of a sudden I heard the most awful shouting. It was a Mum, screaming aggressively at her kid. The daughter (maybe aged 7) had run away up the street next to the school. The mum left her little boy (aged 2 i would guess) on a grass verge and ran after her daughter. I couldn't actually see what was happening at this point but I could hear the mum screaming and the daughter crying. They then followed us up the path to school. The Mum was shouting "do you know what happens to kids like you that run off? People take them and kill them!!!" I was a few feet ahead with my 5 and 3 year old who were looking more and more worried by the stuff the lady was screaming. I carried on walking. The daughter then said "mum I don't want to go to school". The mum grabbed her by the arm and yanked her forward, before sliding her arm in between her daughters back and her school bag and dragging her along the full length of the playground by the bag. Her poor daughters legs were being dragged along the concrete. I said to the mum "I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me". She said "this is a daily occurrence and the school know about it". She was almost hit by a car round there and every day she says she doesn't want to go to school" I said "I understand that, but what you're doing is wrong". She preceded to drag the child along the ground whilst shouting at her. I have told my daughters teacher and I've been assured this is going to be followed up. I'm shaking and not sure if I've done the right thing. It feels like I have. No child deserves to be treated like that, regardless of the circumstances.

if the DD was known to run off and then the woman could have easily held her DDs hand firmly

And if it accidently slips out? Or if the DD goes floppy and then the mum is essentially dragging her by the hand? "Just hold her hand firmly" great advice.

So what are the excuses for the metal gate incident?

Hand holding firmly doesn't work if the child bites your hand when you do that.

If this incident happened as described the school would know about it because the child would be in an enormous amount of distress and have legs covered in fresh marks when they arrived in the classroom.

yy sleepy. Mine would, and still will (she's 10) try to bite a chunk out of my hand when she's freaking out. I do what I have to do to keep her alive and to where we're going.

Ive often had to keep hold of mine by bear hugging sometimes while sat on the floor in the street, I’ve not resorted to dragging him yet! The school keep an eye out and come and help if needed though

I'm sorry but what your doing is really upsetting me

Awful. Just bloody awful.

You think you can pat yourself on the back for how wonderful you are for “stepping in” but all you did was judge someone who is having a really shit time of it, and did so because YOU were upset?

You realise all you did was saw a snapshot into someone’s life and rather than help her, help her daughter, you stepped forward and judged her so now not only does she have a school refuser who is making every morning hell, she has to deal with judgey arses like yourself.

Well done....🙄

“Awful. Just bloody awful.

You think you can pat yourself on the back for how wonderful you are for “stepping in” but all you did was judge someone who is having a really shit time of it, and did so because YOU were upset?

You realise all you did was saw a snapshot into someone’s life and rather than help her, help her daughter, you stepped forward and judged her so now not only does she have a school refuser who is making every morning hell, she has to deal with judgey arses like yourself.

Well done....🙄”

☝️Exactly this! After having absolutely no sleep, dealing with a disabled child and trying to get them on a school bus I was usually at the end of my tether by the time I got my younger two to school!

I can’t believe so many people are trying to justify mum dragging her child . OP I don’t think your choice of words might have been the best but mums actions needed reporting to school. No matter how tired one is or how difficult their child is they can’t justify this behaviour . You brought a life in this world and you are responsible , act your age and be a parent . And if you don’t know how to book some classes and learn

I think the OP has exaggerated what happened, if indeed it happened at all.

There is not loads of support out there for parents of children with behaviours that challenge. There is no money for support like this. You are left to get on with it even if your child's needs are so severe that everyone who works with your child professionally has specialist training; training which parents are not allowed to access.

Personally I agree that the OP is slightly exaggerating.

If the mother was dragging the child every morning with her shins being scrapped on the floor, someone at the school would have done something.

I also dont believe that the neighbour knew exactly who the OP was talking about, but did know enough to report to social services when this woman apparantly slammed her child into a metal gate.

The OP was definitely gossiping with her neighbour. Not needing to talk it out with someone. That's ridiculous. Its gossiping.

Reporting to the school is definitely the right thing.

Sometimes children have behavioural problems like these as a result of situations at home. Certainly not acceptable behaviour from mum and does need further investigation. I think what OP said was quite reasonable - she was upset.

As the parent of an autistic 6 year old that bolts into roads to avoid school and also attacks me constantly to avoid school I personally would avoid judgement. Yes she didn't handle it right but you don't know what happened that morning how many times she was kicked bitten and punched how scared she was that her daughter could be run over or how stressed she was that she had to leave her 2 year old to prevent her 7 year old being run over. No person can physically split themselves in 2 and believe me when I say it is one of the most stressful things to have to choose which child to go to I have 2 boys around similar ages but have chosen not to have anymore for this reason. Maybe you should have offered support and offered to help with the 2 year old which might have alleviated some of the stress and if you were still concerned then report to school. Knowing how impossibly hard it is my heart goes out to the mother and child and if she is in a situation similar to mine I can promise you she hates herself more than anyone could for not dealing with the situation in the right way because of stress levels but until you've been under that type of pressure you literally cannot possibly understand

Exactly this it's all great when you don't have a child that will bite your hand drop thier entire body onto the floor as a dead weight (try carrying a fighting 7 year old and 2 year old into school at same time I dare you) and literally attack you as you go. Is that safe for the mum or the 2 year old? Don't be so bloody judgemental

As another mother of a child with ASD who has violent meltdowns I wouldn't have judged. I'm sure I get judged all the time. My dd is almost 7,and there have been times I have physically manhandled her to school. Sometimes I lose my shit because I get punched, kicked, bitten, spat at every single day. If I don't take her to school I get in trouble for attendance (plenty of parents with disabled children get fined and criminalised) and I lose my job and then we are really fucked.

What has helped when she has bee prone on the pavement screaming that in hurting her (I'm not), or I'm trying to carry her kicking body into school, is another parent offering to take my ds in, carry a bag.

You cannot just firmly hold their hand. She would bite it, and I mean bite a chunk of skin off. She doesn't sleep so we are exhausted, and sometimes we don't function well. And there is no respite, no help even if you ask.

Our lives are hard enough.

As a mother of a child who refuses to eat breakfast and ensures that they can waste as much as time possible before school, I can understand how after this happening every single day, it can extremely be stressful.
I would hopefully not resort to physical violence but have held a firm grip on child and marched to school. It probably was upsetting for you to witness something like that...but you don't know what that mother is going through.
I remember the panic I felt when my 4yr old ran into the road (on the school run) and was missed just inches by a car. She was missed because I grabbed onto her hood and dragged her backwards. The rage and upset I felt after the feeling of panic had subsided was enormous. I had to calm myself down at home before explaining to my child how stupid and dangerous they'd been.
Maybe, you could have asked if she needed help? It's very easy to judge others. You reported it to the school in I imagine a rather emotional and hysterical manner, then proceeded to gossip to your neighbour about it.
Maybe, the child is being abused (hopefully not,) probably the mother needs help and support....but at 7, the child either has problems at school or other problems that needed to be sorted. She is old enough to know what she's doing and that it's wrong to run away.
Surely, if her mother was violently abusing her, the child wouldn't be reluctant about leaving her to go to school? Maybe she has attachment issues. I imagine she started school around the time her sibling was born. That had a big effect on my child. Not only were they taking a massive step, there was a new arrival encroaching on this big milestone.

Quite honestly, if the mum was struggling with behavioural issues with her child (which it sounds like is the case), then the OP responding the way she did will have really upset her further. I was upset enough when that TA intervened to tell my DD off for hitting me. (Okay, it worked because of the surprise factor, I think.)

Because it might not have looked like it, but I was capable of handling it. But it's humiliating when you know that other people can see that you're having difficulties with your child.

A possible way to be helpful would be to distract the child, that would definitely have worked with my DD.

By all means report to the school. That's what the TA did and my DD's class teacher spoke to both me and my DD, which did help.

Kid know how to push the right buttons at that age, sounds like an attension seeking child and a mum at theirs wits end. The worst thing possible when trying to deal with this, is a judgy mum telling you about her feelings! I would have told you to do one Op, maybe try minding your business if you can't help next time

The mothers behaviour was wrong full stop.

I have personally watched the child in question skip happily into school this morning and yesterday morning. I would also like to add that although the child had run off earlier, at the time when the mum was dragging the daughter, it didn't appear that the daughter was really misbehaving at all. She just simply said "I don't want to go to school" and then her mum lost it. That is very different to a lot of the scenarios people here are describing, with children biting, kicking etc. The girl was doing none of these things.

This incident raises so many issues.

Are there places/people that exist to properly support children suffering with school avoidance like this?

In the main i think schools will simply pressure parents to get their dc into school, or else!

Fining parents and criminalising them is not helping dc, in any way! (Or genuine parents who want to do the best by their dc but have no alternatives)

It compounds domestic abuse.

No child should be dragged in extreme distress anywhere.

This dm in the op does not have sufficient arms to deal properly with this situation on her own. She has one hand on the two year old and one dragging a DD along the ground!

She might be large, with a small dd, but even so, this kind of manoeuvre requires two hands to do safely.

X-posted there OP!

This puts a completely different light on it.

For whatever reason, it still needs investigating

It’s not surprising and very disheartening that all the mothers (including myself) with experience of dealing with ASN children who experience challenging behaviour from their children on a daily basis are pretty much being ignored on this thread.

I agree that the best thing the OP can do is to report it and help that the mother gets some help.

But in my experience she won’t get it. My son is violent and unpredictable on a daily basis. He has full time 1 to 1 support in school, can’t go to clubs or classes or childcare unless he has 1 to 1 support, but I am expected to be able to cope with him And my other similarly disabled child on my own. Recently we asked the doctor to refer us to CAMHs as we are struggling to cope with his violence. The doctor put in a referral , backed up by a referral from his school and educational psychologist with records of the last month of daily violent incidents, including punching another child at after school club and being excluded.

CAMH’s wrote back last week saying they won’t be putting us on the waiting list and instead referring us to parenting classes!!!!

And we’re one of the lucky ones that are actually supported by our son’s school. Other parents struggle for help, diagnosis and are at utter breaking point, struggling with mental health break down through lack of help.

Until you have lived with a child with challenging behaviour you CANNOT understand. It is like living in an abusive marriage but your abuser is your child, like being on a ship at sea in a storm constantly. It’s utterly soul destroying and is not comparable to dealing with the odd tantrum from a neurotypical child.

Sometimes my DD1 skips into school happily. She's a Jekyll and Hyde character. Sometimes she's had her violent meltdown before we left the house and by the time we're arriving at the school, she's perfectly happy.

Until you have lived with a child with challenging behaviour you CANNOT understand. It is like living in an abusive marriage but your abuser is your child, like being on a ship at sea in a storm constantly. It’s utterly soul destroying and is not comparable to dealing with the odd tantrum from a neurotypical child.

@gingerginger2 you've summed it up. I don't think even my DH understands it, as he's not the one my DD targets.

I get normal tantrums from my DD2, who is NT, it's totally different. DD1 just completely loses it by contrast. Then a few minutes later, she can be 'happily skipping along' into school.

Lots of drip feeding and embellishments.

Mummadeeze I shout at my kids all the time. I don’t slap or drag them etc but I do shout. I have one that is very difficult and sometimes I need to shout because nothing is working and then I strap her into her pushchair to calm down. The other one gets really angry and again sometimes I have to shout and send her to her room. I’ll be honest, I’ve tried all the calm ways and talking etc but frankly, it doesn’t always work. I don’t think shouting sometimes is a bad thing. If it’s constant with no relief then fair enough but my god my kids are trying and I can’t be Mary poppins all day long. What would affect them more is being ripped from us and placed in a home. Especially the younger one with all her health needs. We aren’t bad parents because we struggle and shout sometimes. Also, the mother said to the op that the school knows about so I’m assuming here she has to get the child to school or she will be in trouble. It’s awful having a school tell you you have to get your child in and then others are judging you for how that happens.