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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DH 'asking permission'

348 replies

BettySwoll0cks · 19/06/2019 22:18

Is anyone else fed up with their DH "asking permission" to do stuff they haven't thought through, that clearly impacts on family life? Mine just asked "can I go cycling across France for 3 weeks next May?" and I was like, I don't know, can you? Can "we" manage it?

We have one DC who is at pre school during term time, so we need childcare solutions over holidays (like most people). DH gets one long leave entitlement per year which he is planning to use for the cycling. I pointed out that we would need to think through how we will manage school hols between us and he just completely shut down and said I was telling him he couldn't go. I said no, it's just that we need to think through what the knock-ons are to the rest of the year and it might be ok, it might not. Massive argument then ensued about who had got angry with whom, raised their voice first, irrelevant blah.

It just feels like I'm always expected to have The Family Plan and if I don't immediately say "yes dear, that's fine I'll work everything else around you" then I'm treated like fun police. AIBU?

OP posts:
FizzyGreenWater · 22/06/2019 15:07

“My turn” doesn’t work with things that cost that much annual leave and money.

Exactly.

The point that it makes is that in that case, looks like there's one person in the partnership hogging all the opportunity, hoovering up all the spare money, taking all the 'fun'. From the whole family, thanks to the knock-on effects of solo jollies. Spare money gone. Extra childcare needed because FunStealer won't be contributing. Money, but also time is at such a premium when you have young kids.

And yes. She wouldn't want to go without them for such a long time - he wants to. Again, him first, everyone else much further down the list.

And to think that in ten years' time, he'll be wondering why his kids walk straight past him to get to OP to share news/ask favours/give a hug.

FizzyGreenWater · 22/06/2019 15:08

But there has to be a way of talking about things that means a proper decision can be made without anyone feeling either put upon or disgruntled?

Yep. It's called 'not marrying a misogynist manchild'. I recommend it, these situations seem to resolve themselves to everyone's satisfaction somehow. It's amazing!

AndroidB · 22/06/2019 15:09

Male entitlement. What would he say if you wanted a holiday with your friends for 3 weeks?

PCohle · 22/06/2019 15:24

But there has to be a way of talking about things that means a proper decision can be made without anyone feeling either put upon or disgruntled?

I agree, but I think part of that has to be realising when a proposal is so totally unfeasible and selfish that it's not worth raising. Putting your spouse in the position of having to "refuse" you a trip that you should know perfectly well is impossible just isn't fair. (Nor is expecting your spouse to do all the legwork to magically make it possible).

My DH and I fairly often have separate holidays because of hobbies/friends. But it works because of the age of our kids, because it goes both ways and because we're on the same page about how long and how frequently it's reasonable to be away.

BertrandRussell · 22/06/2019 15:31

I agree not marrying a misogynist manchild is excellent advice. But what if one of a couple got, for whatever reason, the opportunity of a lifetime? Should they automatically turn it down if they have children? A friend of mine, for example, will be spending 3 weeks in the Antarctic in connection with a volunteer role he has. This really is a one off-absolutely no chance of it ever happening again.In his case, his children are grown up. But if it had happened 15 years ago when they were 3 and 5 should he have automatically said no?

Krisskrosskiss · 22/06/2019 15:31

'The fun police'
Oh my gosh I feel you. This is the worst. Why are women always made to feel like the fun police for pointing out the problems with an idea? Like do you think I want to be this person? Maybe I want to uo out to the club and take drugs, maybe I want to go cycling round France for three weeks, maybe I want to go to New York for a min break randomly during school term time, maybe I want to stay out till 3am with the lads..... but someone has to remember that you have responsibility for children and share a home with other people than yourself.... I guess it's always those nasty nasty women shittingnon those poor mens dreams...

Sometimes I just want to go and stay in a hotel and turn off my phone and be like 'fine okay, I'm doing this, you do whatever you want but you're arranging everything to do with the children yourself... and then you can see how much fun it all is'

Krisskrosskiss · 22/06/2019 15:33

And what they really mean of course is not 'can I?' But 'will you sort everything out so that I can?'

coco123456789 · 22/06/2019 15:41

If you have a family, why would you want to spend a 3 week holiday without them? I don’t get this, surely you would rather be with your family? I occasionally go away with my parents and the kids for a few days when DH can’t go away at half term as he’s already using all his holiday allowance for summer, Xmas and Easter. Or I have been away for a few days on a girls trip and he has been to a sporting fixture for a few days. But to want tospend 3 weeks summer holiday without your family doesn’t make any sense, regardless of childcare arrangements!

PCohle · 22/06/2019 15:48

But what if one of a couple got, for whatever reason, the opportunity of a lifetime? Should they automatically turn it down if they have children?

That's incredibly different from the situation the OP is describing though. I certainly don't think that, nor do I imagine do most of the other posters on this thread.

Sitting your spouse down to genuinely discuss a once in a lifetime volunteering opportunity, having carefully considered the implications on childcare, family budget and holiday allowances etc, and fully recognising what a big ask it is of your partner is one thing.

OP's DH wants to go on (another) jolly with his mates and has done fuck all to even consider how that will impact the rest of the family.

anothernotherone · 22/06/2019 15:52

In most familes it's not that long that children are young enough to make 3 week hobby jollies irresponsible for anyway. Obviously these are exceptions where a disabled child might need lifelong 24/7 supervision or supervision til an older age, or where families have a lot of children with 4 or 5 years between each so always have a small child, but in a typical family with say 2 children, 2 years apart, it's only about 13 or 14 years out of an average 65 years of adulthood, when children need a parent constantly either present or to arrange someone else to do initially 24/7 and then before and after school, emergency (illness etc) and holiday care.

Once the kids are secondary age they can be left for a few hours after school or in the holidays and it isn't quite such a huge deal if one parent is away from home and unable to do their 50% of childcare.

13 or 14 years, out of 65 years on average of being an adult.

Even if you assume that cycling across France will be off the menu after age 65 (though for a fit and healthy lifelong cyclist it shouldn't be) there are only 13 or 14 years of parenthood when it's ridiculously selfish to choose to do that.

Why not go in one of the other 30 odd years between the ages of 18 and 60, during which you don't have small children?

Cycling across France isn't a once in a lifetime opportunity - it's something that he can still do. He can do it in 10 years time, when it doesn't matter whether he's home to share holiday childcare.

He can cycle around the world, when the kids are independent...

TinselTimes · 22/06/2019 16:23

Reading this thread has reminded me - when my siblings and I were 3, 5, 8 and 11, my dad went abroad for 4 months to do voluntary work that might have (but didn’t) led to a new career. He rang once a week for about ten minutes total.

In retrospect that’s just baffling - how did he think that was ok? How did my mum (who worked 3 days a week) manage? Why on earth did she agree? Did they really discuss it or did he just decide to do it?

This is the kind of shit men do!

HepzibahGreen · 22/06/2019 16:30

If you have a family, why would you want to spend a 3 week holiday without them?
You don't have teenagers do you?😂
Seriously though, I would bloody love to spend, maybe not 3 weeks but certainly 10 days, off with my friends with no domestic responsibilities. But like anotherone says, by the time I'm 45/46 I will be able to. That's adult life.

givemesteel · 22/06/2019 16:44

It's very convenient when men develop these hobbies that happen to be really time consuming.

It's the unwillingness to compromise and find a solution. How different would it be if he'd asked for a week rather than 3 weeks and come to you with a childcare solution that was fair on both of you.

Apologies if this has been covered but why three weeks, that's just an arbitrary starting place and finishing place and there's no reason why he can't just do a week and come home.

SignedUpJust4This · 22/06/2019 17:35

Givemesteel quite right.

They never develop a 'passion' for a 1hr zumba class. It's always weeks away cycling, or ALL Day golf/cricket.

Many Dad's (not all) are professional shirkers and it baffles me that women put up with it.

fotheringhay · 22/06/2019 17:58

They probably put up with it for many reasons - I'm the first to agree with all the LTBs, in theory, but having gone through the end of a marriage I can tell you it's an absolute f'ing nightmare.

Yes I'm free of a dh who ignored me, but I've also lost: financial stability, security for the dc, the dream of a life that I'd wanted since about age 5, to mention a few. It's no picnic.

OralBElectricToothbrush · 22/06/2019 18:04

I think that “asking permission” thing is rubbish. But there has to be a way of talking about things that means a proper decision can be made without anyone feeling either put upon or disgruntled?

Well, of course there is! When your partner is a mature individual. My spouse and I have hobbies that both involve, ideally, time away. Our kids are now secondary school age, one teen and one tween. And even now, of course, it's, when the opportunity arrives, considering both peoples' work schedules, leave, the needs of the children, the need for equal time out and costs, managing around family time, too. That's just life when you choose to have children and they are not grown up.

The problem is that this person hasn't considered any of that, just expects the other parent to give a green light and cover all the rest or they sulk and cry 'Fun Police!' The child in this instance is very young and requires childcare that needs to be covered in school holidays but taking leave from work and in this instance, as the OP states, he wants to use all of his leave in one block to completely excuse himself from any childcare obligation, much less a family holiday or time on his own with his child.

We've all been there, hobbies can be tricky when you have young children, but as my father always said, 'If you want an easy life, don't have kids.'

Personally, yes, I've had to turn down 'opportunities of a lifetime' in the past because they wouldn't fit with the family I chose to create with my husband, which is in itself also an opportunity I could have declined, and he has had to pass on some things, too. Now they're a bit older, there's more leeway but we still consider the impact on each other and the whole family before even bringing it up. I mean, that's just basic adulting, I'd have thought.

SignedUpJust4This · 22/06/2019 18:57

Sorry Fotheringhay i worded that wrongly.. It is not the fault of the poor woman who has married a selfish man child. And I know that people put up with many things in a marriage for many (often selfless) reasons.

I'm glad OP is challenging this particular twat tho.

fotheringhay · 22/06/2019 19:04

No problem! I really wish it was easier on a practical level for women to walk away if they need to. But I think that's partly why men can get away with it, if the marriage/family isn't that important to them you've got no leverage, if you say 'do that again and I'm off' they might just think 'hooray, freedom'.

I could be being a little pessimistic here!

SignedUpJust4This · 23/06/2019 17:06

Any news OP? Has he come to his senses?

BettySwoll0cks · 23/06/2019 20:34

A bit early to say I think, @SignedUpJust4This. He is being markedly more thoughtful/proactive this weekend and is mucking in more around the house, and no sulking which is a good sign. I refused to give an opinion on the cycling, just pointed out some of the considerations. There is a bigger conversation to be had in due course though, but it's been years coming so I need a bit of time to think about how to tackle it.

Thanks for asking Smile

OP posts:
SignedUpJust4This · 23/06/2019 21:10

Hopefully he's had a wake up call. I hope he's not just being nice so you will let him go! Good luck. Keep us posted.

Littlehouse156 · 23/06/2019 21:15

Fotheringhay- you are right. It happened to me.

Mine went away for 2 weeks on “a trip of a lifetime” when we had a 2 and a 4 year old.

I wasn’t happy with this but he went anyway. He didn’t give a shit. When I said I wouldn’t be happy with him doing anything like that again, he just said “right well maybe marriage isn’t for me then” and off he went.

fotheringhay · 23/06/2019 22:30

Oh Christ Little there are no words strong enough for what he did Angry

Flowers
Disfordarkchocolate · 23/06/2019 22:37

You're being much calmer and more considered than I would be @BettySwoll0cks. A withering look and piss off would have been my reply, however, mine largely gave up cycling when we married. It's not a hobby for someone with young children apparently.

Rosemary46 · 23/06/2019 22:55

IME words are no use in this situation, it’s action that is required.

I know this is a very unpopular opinion on MN, where the answer to everything is “ have you told him how you feel? “.

The subtext is usually “ men are so stupid they don’t understand that eg throwing their underwear on the floor for you to pick up is lazy and selfish. They believe that Laundry is done by fairies / they have poor eyesight so they can’t see pants so it’s your job to explain carefully in words of one syllable and in a nice tone . Otherwise it’s all your own fault it’s happening. “

Words only work when the person genuinely doesn’t know what your opinion is and how their actions are affecting you. However in most cases, the men concerned know exactly what they are doing, they just DONT CARE . Because they believe that you are there to facilitate their life.

The problem isn’t their poor vision, it’s their sense of entitlement.

So talking to them won’t change their world view or make them care about your feelings. . It’s just noise and they will respond with some platitudes that will make you STFU. They will “ try harder “ for about 5 mins and then go back to normal.

The only thing that works is action that inconveniences them. As a PP said, once they have to give up a week of their free time to care for their own children single handed, they suddenly will understand the cost of that week cycling in Hong Kong. Because first they had to take a week off work to care for their children while you went to Paris with your best friend. Or had to watch the kids all day and evening every Saturday for 3 months .

If the only cost is them having to listen to you for 30 mins talking about your feelings and a bunch of flowers ( from the joint account natch ) , they will be back at least once a year.

Hell, I’d go on holiday once a month if that’s all it cost me.

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