AIBU or is DS?

[availableforlunch]

DS is 12. He gets what I think is a lot of pocket money - £15 per week. This is because he likes to spend money on expensive clothes and the Xbox, so this way I put the responsibility for buying those things on him, and he should supposedly learn to budget accordingly.

He also gets £5 a week on his lunch account at school, and his phone contract paid (not an expensive phone).

They're going to Cadbury's World with school this week. He's asked for £15 extra to take for spending money. I have said no, he can have £5. He is having a strop saying that £5 won't be enough to buy anything there, and he's going to spend the £5 on sweets for the journey. I've said if that's the case he is having nothing. He should have saved some pocket money from last week if he wanted to take a lot of money on the trip.

Who is being unreasonable here? I think he's being spoilt, he thinks I'm mean.

@Contraceptionismyfriend totally this

I’m now thinking of someone l used to work with who everything she wanted as a child. She got a job and got a credit card, proceeded to rack up a lot of debt and nearly got make bankrupt. Her parents stepped in and cleared the debt for her. A few years go by and she does the same thing again. Her parents refused to bail her out and she was declared bankrupt. Her salary was then paid into her parents bank account and they gave her pocket money each week. In her 30’s they were still doing this!!! Who wants that for their child?!

@availableforlunch
My son gets £10 a month pocket money. I would expect him to save a proportion of that towards new expensive trainers and then I'd pay the rest myself when he needed them. He would not expect to get the most expensive trainers and we would agree a budget. For me, it's more about him understanding that he needs to make an effort to save towards something, not about the actually money, if that makes sense!

@availableforlunch lm genuinely confused by the cries of misery! I think some people think if they ever say no to their child it’s the worst thing ever and they’re terrible parents. In fact the opposite is true. In my work l encounter people never told no and it rarely ends well. For them or people around them

@EL8888 I also know a few people that happened to- they care from quite hard yo families and couldn’t have the things they so desperately wanted so when they qualified for poor quality credit they went mad with it. It’s not uncommon at all really. Amongst all sorts of people

My kids (at age 12) have never asked for £120 trainers. The most I've spent is £75 for 12yo ds trainers.

With your trainers example, assuming that the child hasn't outgrown their trainers, they go without. In your son's case, it's only 2 months pocket money so he should go without for 2 months.

If my child had outgrown their trainers I would say, they are too pricey and they'd probably ask for a cheaper pair or ask what my budget is.

My 12yo son still has money left from Xmas. I know this as he paid for a game download yesterday. He enjoys trainers but likes computer games more and knows that it's good to have savings so he can buy computer games throughout the year. He watches YouTube so will know when the release dates are and he's learned that waiting 4-6 weeks on the newest games usually saves him £10-£15. He's good at watching the PlayStation Store prices and loves having money to pay for games during sales. (He prefers digital downloads to discs)

Well my son may get a pair of trainers for his birthday, but he’s not in the mentality of thinking they just because you spend £120 on something it must be better.

At any one time, he’ll have a couple of pairs of jeans, couple of pairs of trainers which can last a year or so and various tops / shorts. He’s not into Adidas clorhes and none of his friends wear this sort of stuff (unless it’s on their feet).

IMO, the kind of DC who always appear to be “on the want” are the ones who have very rigid pocket money. They get into a mentality of feeling hard done by, basically. If you can be more flexible and meet them halfway, then they tend to relax and be less money /label / price obsessed too. They don’t argue with you so much if they feel you can be in their side occasionally, rather than creating barriers for the sake of it.

So a one off trip to Cadbury World? Yes I’d give him the extra fiver. It’s just common sense and being reasonable. It’s not worth the big debate.

Does this mean I simply buy my kids everything and anything they want? Of course not. But I do understand that teens need to fit in with their peers. Also they are developing a sense of identity and wanting particular clothes is part of that. If you demonstrate an ability to understand them and that you can be flexible according to the circumstances, then this is an even more important life lesson I think.

but what does DS aged 12 make himself for lunch???

@EL8888 I also know a few people that happened to- they care from quite hard UP families and couldn’t have the things they so desperately wanted so when they qualified for poor quality credit they went mad with it. It’s not uncommon at all really. Amongst all sorts of people

^^ edited to correct typo!

Came from quite hard up families FFS

availableforlunch Mine are all currently into Adidas Gazelles - about £75 a pair. We buy them what they need because that is our responsibility as their parents. Mine don't have endless money handed to them at all. Per week they get £15 lunch money and £10 pocket money. We'll top up an extra £10 here and there if they are meeting friends for a trip to the cinema as that means they usually end up in Burger King afterwards! So they pay/budget for the cinema, we pay for their food.

XBox/Playstation games they fund from their birthday/Christmas money - they bank half of what they receive which leaves them about £300 to spend on extras/random rubbish. They have November birthdays. They know the general release dates for the games they like so they put money aside for those. They aren't into "proper" presents - just games for their consoles. They also receive cash presents from their grandparents - that also gets banked. This, to me, is a better way of teaching them to budget plus they'll have a nice little nest egg when they need it. I think your system doesn't allow your son to put anything aside as he has to cover too many things.

Tbh i wouldn't have thought twice about giving mine money to take on a school trip. It's totally separate to any pocket money/lunch money/budget that you have given.

Yes you clearly have problems financially to sort out, but it's a school trip, giving a wee bit extra is really normal isn't it?

It's not a question of being hard on kids. In fact the opposite - you can baby children by just handing them everything they want no questions or boundaries, or you can say ' you are growing up now, I trust you to have a degree of independence in some matters, you can start to make some choices over the things you want and here is £60 a month to do it with' Being independent and encouraged to make decisions increases self esteem. Do you really want your children to grow up thinking they have to go to Mum or Dad fro everything.

My children got an allowance - it was entirely thier choice what they spent it on- no judgements from me - if they made amistake, they soon worked it out for themselves and made better choices the next time.

The Op is hardly being 'hard' on her Dc by giving him £60 a month, as well as paying for basic wardrobe items and his phone.
Some people have no clue as to what constitutes a reasonable amount of money - £60 is more than generous.

The thing is it is much easier to give way and just hand over money 9especially if you have plenty of money) - it takes a lot less parenting, it takes some work to discuss, to put up with grumpiness etc - but in the long run you are helping a young person become a well rounded adult. And that is your job as a parent. There are parents on low incomes who have to make tough decisions over basics let alone luxuries, who struggle to get a pair of shoes of any description on their kids feet.
i worry about the number of incompetent, completely dependent unable to function adults being produced when parents can;t be bothered to say 'no' or 'you have more than enough don;t ask for more' Anything for an easy life eh ?

As an aside - our secondary school alwasy set an upper limit for money on school trips (usually about £5 for a day trip, £30 for a trip abroad - this was 10 -15 yrs ago) It successfully stopped kids pestering for more money or showing off to other children that they had more, or feeling peer pressure that others had more than them.
No one really needs £20 to spend in a gift shop.

"My way, he can still have what he wants, if he wants it enough, and he's learning about saving at the same time."

But he's not learning the value, he's coming across spoilt and entitled so I would say your way isn't working.

I would say most parents if 12 year-olds are more concerned about what their DS is eating for lunch on a day-to-day basis than paying back a damaged phone.

I do apologise if I sound rude OP, but I’ve never met a parent who wouldn’t have any involvement in packed lunches for a 12 year old, yet not give them money to buy lunch at school either. This is what I mean by teaching him, the price if everything, but the value of nothing.

@avalanching clearly a lot of people on this thread who think he's hard done by would disagree with your assessment of my child as "spoilt and entitled".

@Catloons he has money to spend on lunches. I guess all the people you know who would make their 12 year old's lunch are either SAHMs or part time workers if they have the time or inclination to make a 12 year old a packed lunch every morning.

He has £20 a week to spend as he wishes. Don't make out like I'm stepping back from parenting him because I don't do everything for him and because I expect him to repay something which he has smashed.

There's plenty of pack up food, crisps, fruit, bagels, crumpets, meats, cheeses, whatever he wants in this house to eat. If he wants to eat from the canteen, he can, but his disposable income will be restricted for a while as a consequence of him breaking a phone in a strop.

Sure OP, but what actually happens? Does he actually make himself sandwiches, or does all that stuff go to waste while he eats crisps at school?
No you don’t have to be a SAHM to make sandwiches for one child!

For me, the spoiled and entitled bit comes from him expecting you to give him money for the school trip and then stropping about it, the wanting to have £120 trainers, and that he doesn't want the last season stuff from Sports Direct, he wants the current season stuff from Sports Direct.

My son wouldn't expect any of those things, he understands the value of money and how much things cost, which is how I've brought him up. I've taught him that wearing the latest and most expensive clothes/shoes really isn't the be all and end all, and that sometimes we can't have what we want.

Oh, and the breaking a phone in a temper tantrum.

Did you buy him a new phone?

@Passthecherrycoke done that a couple of times?! The girl l worked with had misplaced confidence her parents would always bail her out -because they always had in the past

I think it really depends on the 12 year old. Ds2 is that age and really struggles with budgeting. But ds1 it worked really well. £10p/w pocket money for incidental spending (and yes that would include spending money on a school trip). He got free dinners, but could buy extras from his pm. Once he was about 14 I started giving him an allowance for clothes, £100 every two months, that was for everything apart from school uniform. It was then on him to decide to buy fewer more expensive items versus more cheaper items. I did / do also buy things as birthday or Christmas presents if that’s what they ask for.

He is 12 not 22.

In circumstances like this YOU need to save the extra for him in advance. You do this by reducing the amount you give him in the weeks before the trip.

"For me, the spoiled and entitled bit comes from him expecting you to give him money for the school trip and then stropping about it, the wanting to have £120 trainers, and that he doesn't want the last season stuff from Sports Direct, he wants the current season stuff from Sports Direct."

All 12 year olds have the occasional strop, and according to you and others on this thread he was right to expect money for the trip because I'm "mean"! That doesn't make him spoiled or entitled.

Yeah, he doesn't like to wear last season's clothes, and he likes expensive trainers. That doesn't make him spoiled or entitled either. You aren't somehow superior because your DS is not bothered about expensive things. Mine is, we're all different and we all have our weaknesses and general likes and dislikes!

If DS was getting all those things from me whenever he wanted, maybe you would be right to call him spoiled or entitled. But he doesn't. He saves up for them. You can't be spoiled for wanting/liking something.

OP, I don't think YABU but I would give my child the opportunity to either have an advance on their pocket money or (if I could afford it) a way to earn another £5.
That way you still see the value of money but avoid conflict at home over it, your DS has a nice time and you still get to be both a good parent and the 'good guy'.

I said you should advance next week's pocket money.