To ask why two London boroughs send more kids to Oxbridge than the entirety of Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester combined?

[nickymanchester]

I was reading an article in The Guardian today which claimed that more children from the London boroughs of Richmond and Barnet go to Oxbridge than all of Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester combined.

For context, the population of Richmond and Barnet combined is about 540k (Barnet actually has quite a lot of people living there) according to the ONS - so about the same population as Sheffield.

David Lammy says England is failing those who don't go to university

This is the quote:-

He noted that university access data reveals that geography is as much of a fault line as class or race. “Two London boroughs, Richmond and Barnet, send more kids to Oxbridge than the entirety of Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester combined,” he said.

So, is it just down to all the private schools in London? Or is there something else affecting these figures as well?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2019/02/26/british-undergraduates-oxbridge-fall-amid-concern-squeezed-foreign/amp/

Looks like I was wrong about there being a maximum quota for overseas students. I guess the point is that it is not permitted to select a less academically-able student because he will pay more than a brighter U.K. or EU one. However I wonder if it does sway admissions people’s minds when choosing between two equally qualified on paper?

The big international intake is at postgrad level, not at undergrad.

That article specifically says increasing at undergrad level though.

Yes, but increasing from a low level to begin with doesn't necessarily mean much. And Brexit might put the kybosh on it anyway, it certainly won't be as attractive a proposition for European students any more.

"The rise is driven by to a record 63,690 students from outside the European Union (EU)"

So Brexit might turn out to have nothing to do with it?

There's currently ~135,000 EU students, and while the current ones have a guarantee I doubt that will apply forever to new ones post brexit.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-44676843

I’m from a former mining town (state comprehensive student) and attended Cambridge around ten years ago. There was very little diversity indeed amongst the student population in my college and I frankly stuck out like a sore thumb...I actually once had someone sit me down and very soberly inform me that my accent sounded “very aggressive”!

I do hope that things have improved a bit - I think they brought in a state school quota of some sort after I left but these statistics are pretty damning in my view. At its best, university should be a chance for kids of all kinds of backgrounds to mix but that certainly wasn’t my experience, which may admittedly have partly been down to my choice of college. I had a generally good time but looking back there was a lot that was lost in translation socially between my Geordie self and the kids I met from Winchester, Eton, Cheltenham etc. (and not just because of the accent)...

Oxbridge probably do genuinely face challenges with getting in applications from northern students but they don’t always do themselves any favours. Cambridge visited my school as part of their comp friendly “Target” campaign but unfortunately sent the world’s poshest SPS student to give the talk. He was clearly a very sweet guy but telling a bunch of kids in a school like that (many of whom are already thinking very seriously about dropping out of school to get a job and earn some cash ASAP, no matter how academically capable) about a social and political sciences degree with no clear path to employment afterwards was a bit misplaced.

Anyway, I’m now pretty senior in my organisation and in a position to make hiring decisions so I do read stats like this with interest. I hope that employers can do something to redress the balance and widen the population of university leavers that they interview.

I think they will. Visas for students from EU countries will be easy to get.

Richmond is very wealthy, most children living there don't go to state high schools there, they all go private. Hence it can be quite easy to get your child into a Richmond state high school but they aren't high achieving. Christ church school used to be full of children from Shepherds Bush and Feltham nad Hanworth children go to a lot of them as well as they aren't being filled up with Richmond kids. At least that's how it was a few years back.

This is such rubbish. It's not easy to get your child into a Richmond secondary unless you live in the right place - many are wildly oversubscribed, including Christ's (at least get the name of the school right) which is now a really good school that parents actively want to send their children to. Catchments seem to shrink year on year. Most children don't go private, maybe 10% to 20% of the total depending on the primary they attended (which is higher than average across the country but still nothing like all). At DD's primary it was approx 10% going to private school.

There are a couple of schools parents try to avoid but most are good and do a good job by their students.

I know several children from DD's Y6 who did not get a first round secondary allocation at all and were on waiting lists (including for Christ's) for ages. Yes, in the past, lots of children from other boroughs got into Christ's because it wasn't a good school and people did not want to send their children there. That is no longer the case.

Disclaimer: I don't have any children at Christ's but know lots of parents there who love the school.

I’m a teacher at a primary school in the Richmond Borough and around 10% do leave to go onto private schools at Year 2 or Year 6 but the local state secondary is oversubscribed for the first time in all the years I have worked here and some families who would have gone private are now choosing this school.

It seems to me that there is a lot of choice when it comes to good schools and as many families are wealthy, they can make choices for their children that most people can’t (including me!) I live in the Richmond Borough but certainly won’t be able to send my child private.

For anyone knowing a young person who wants to visit a campus but in financial hardship. Help with travel costs, free bed & breakfast the night before open day.
www.hull.ac.uk/special/travel-stay.aspx

FreeFresia link is such a good point about universities trying to help with travel for prospective students. It is worth looking into for any university you're interested in as I imagine quite a few of them help with expenses these days - just not all of them are good at advertising it.

For a young person in financial hardship wanting to visit Oxford, some of the colleges will pay travel expenses to the open days (I haven't looked at all the colleges to know if all of them do it).

I am glad to live in said borough with high attainment and expectations. State school educated and have a post grad from top 3 uni. Daughter at state primary and most parents are university educated. And we pay the second highest council tax on the country so we get what we pay for