To ask why two London boroughs send more kids to Oxbridge than the entirety of Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester combined?

[nickymanchester]

I was reading an article in The Guardian today which claimed that more children from the London boroughs of Richmond and Barnet go to Oxbridge than all of Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester combined.

For context, the population of Richmond and Barnet combined is about 540k (Barnet actually has quite a lot of people living there) according to the ONS - so about the same population as Sheffield.

David Lammy says England is failing those who don't go to university

This is the quote:-

He noted that university access data reveals that geography is as much of a fault line as class or race. “Two London boroughs, Richmond and Barnet, send more kids to Oxbridge than the entirety of Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester combined,” he said.

So, is it just down to all the private schools in London? Or is there something else affecting these figures as well?

Know of two males advised to apply to Oxford, they did, were accepted but then declined. Why, both felt they would know no-one there and could do just as well at a Uni in Scotland.

Richmond is very wealthy, most children living there don't go to state high schools there, they all go private. Hence it can be quite easy to get your child into a Richmond state high school but they aren't high achieving. Christ church school used to be full of children from Shepherds Bush and Feltham nad Hanworth children go to a lot of them as well as they aren't being filled up with Richmond kids. At least that's how it was a few years back.

and Tiffin (top Grammar school) is full of kids who would have went to private school had they not got their place at Tiffin.....

"My son is doing GCSE maths"

So not KS3, GCSE. Out of interest what is he doing?

Not really buying the competition thing setting you up for Oxbridge or " corporate life" either. Surely ability is what is important,not who you rubbed shoulders with in primary school.

Supergirlthesecond. He is in year 12.

@M1Mountain Well, my point was that competition in Richmond is fierce, and competition to get to Oxbridge is fierce. Hence experience in one area leads to success in another. Richmond's a hot-house, that yields its own results.

As for corporate life, do you really think that ability is what gets you promoted, rather than sharp elbows? I'd say that's naive at best, bordering on disingenuous.

Supergirl I didn’t bother reading the rest of the your post because it appeared to be predicated on the fact that you can’t be 16 and in year 12.

That's a shame as there might be something in there that could help this boy.

Those boroughs are a few of the wealthiest in the country. Rich kids have the best of everything, including getting into top universities. It's not fair!!!

You're inferring that these areas are superior places to be educated for Oxbridge ability and that is simply not true. The North,SW and elsewhere are just as capable of preparing and educating children. You are perpetuating a myth.

And you didn't say what maths your GCSE year 6 child is covering at primary school.

Supergirlthesecond I have read your post now and had a look at the Megabus. It only does the journey from where we are to Oxford once a week.

@howwdufeel

Between us, on here, we could get this organised if you are comfortable saying where this boy would be travelling from and what time he has to be in Oxford.

I am here if you want to help this lad.

GCAcademicut -- RIchmond does not have grammar schools. There are two excellent grammar schools in nearby Kingston, but these draw from all of the surrounding boroughs. Richmond does have a number of private schools including four schools that regularly feature in the top ten secondary schools in the UK: St Paul's Boys, St Paul's Girls, Hampton School and Lady Eleanor Holles. All four are exceptional schools with very high entrance requirements and very high exam results. I think part of this is population density rather than size. Kids in London have more options for secondary schools because they can get to more of them in 45 minutes or less on public transport. So the best schools have a huge population to draw from and therefore can be extremely selective. And then when those top pupils are put together and challenged well they excel.

So 3 A*s from other parts of the country aren't as good?

Because both boroughs are wealthy areas of London

And lots of old money going to the right private schools and getting the right tutoring

Let’s not pretend that class and money isn’t a huge factor

Thank you for your kind offer Supergirl. I will have a chat with him.

no problem:-) There is always a way. The right people make sure of that.

That’s good to know super.

This is an old article but it dispels the myth being spouted by all those posters on here who are saying that children in the south are cleverer than northern kids.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/sep/23/comment.britishidentity

Er I wonder! Could it be money and connections?

howwud- if your friend’s son is only 16, I don’t think he needs to worry that he hasn’t visited Oxford yet? Hasn’t he only just finished his GCSEs? Why does he need to visit now - or are you talking about a particular programme he wants to get on?

My DS has just done his final GCSE today and there’s about 6 of them here now, but they’re all waiting to see their results before they confirm their A-level choices. Going to visit unis and degree choices is not even on anyone’s radar at this point.

Social cleansing

School is good, property in the area becomes more valuable. This keeps out the poor people from the good school.

Those areas in London are for the privileged. The children can get the best schooling and go to the best universities.

Ideally the rich will own some property so poor people paying the rent can also fund the rich kids going to school.

There is absolutely no argument from me that there is something wrong when the number of private school students at Oxbridge is so disproportionate to the percentage of schools overall that are private. This is historical. I just think that the whole debate is based on secondary sources, like the Guardian, and an often outdated, fictitious image of the Oxbridge student when the reality lies in the middle ground that is often overshadowed by our sense of injustice and fair play. I share it too, and I know that there are far more capable people than me working continuously to make sure that the space that allows people through is broad enough to accomodate pupils from everywhere while still retaining the narrowness in its structure that makes people want to go there in the first place.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/increasing-access#

This is advice for teachers (and dismisses somewhat the myth of the perfect 'application'.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/applying-to-oxford/teachers#content-tab--2

Manicmij - surely part of going to university is not knowing anyone there?