Does a messy home negatively affect a child's upbringing?

[MaryPopppins]

A friend of mine has gone away for the week and as an emergency needed me to feed her cats and let them in and out as her mum is also away and normally does it.

I've only been in her living room and kitchen before. They're both very cluttered, no space on sides anywhere. And lots of collections. But I guess I'm used to it and look past it as kids are normally running round playing and we only tend to pop in for an hour or two here and there.

But today saw the bedrooms and bathroom for the first time. And was really quite shocked and saddened.

(It's a bungalow, you have to pass the kids 2 bedrooms and the bathroom to get into the lounge and kitchen, wasn't snooping. Normally the doors are shut.)

The kids bedrooms were covered. I can't quite figure out how they get into and out of bed. And the bath was piled high with dirty washing and towels. Toilet all brown, even the seat, sink full of bath toys. Every windowsill is full of stuff so they wouldn't be able to open/close curtains etc.

If I'd seen photos online I'd assume it was of mentally unwell people or old people who needed help. (I will admit to being a germ phonic person. Quite obsessed.)

But they're smart, and the kids are smart, quite cheeky boisterous children but they're happy enough and doing fine at school.

Am I blinkered and terribly judgemental and that's a fine way to live? Will it effect the kids negatively?

I'm not concerned for their emotional well being. But I suddenly feel really sad for them seeing where they sleep/are supposed to get clean.

I was lucky to grow up in a very tidy home. My mum is very house proud and maybe I just took it for granted?

I feel like offering help would insult them. They're very capable. Maybe they're overwhelmed?

I think it’s pretty easy to fall into this kind of chaos especially with kids.

I wouldn’t bleach the toilet. The brown will be stained scale. I’d put some really decent descaler down it and leave everything else. Harsh stuff can damage the pan and bleach will just whiten the lime scale. So if you do it be very careful.

Her kids are probably fine.

I understand the "cluttr doesn't mean dirty" thing.

We have a couple of quite cluttered shelves. They're dusty, yes as I'm too lazy to dust them as frequently as I should.

And our shoe and coat rack can get cluttered.

But they aren't places that can count as "dirty"

That's stuff like kitchen, bathroom, any surfaces you eat on. Pet areas. Etc.

My living room is cluttered at the end of every day with toys/craft stuff.

There's nothing though that would make a bad smell/have dangerous germs.

If your home is cluttered how can it be clean? In order to properly clean all that clutter you;d have to be a slave to dusting and wiping down everything.
I know someone who is a hoarder. It's become worse after her second baby. The oldest sleeps in her room, and despite having three cribs none of them are put together because there is no room for it in any of the rooms. It is a three bedroom home. I don't go over anymore as it just makes me way too uncomfortable and my asthma suffers.

I also don't know why people think tidy homes mean no one plays with their kids as much as messy homes? My home is quite tidy but we play a ton. We just pick up after. It doesn't take long.

People who are saying that their house is too bad for their kids to have friends over, that's terrible! Tidy up ffs you're seriously impacting your kids friendships and nobody likes living in a tip.

I'd be tempted to give the bathroom a deep clean and use the excuse of the cat shitting in the bath as an excuse to put a couple of loads in the washing machine! She can't argue with that reason even if she doubts you, she can't prove you're lying. I'd also be tempted to give the house a good airing, the house probably smells rank of stale air & dirt.

Everything else can stay as it is but there's no excuse for the kitchen and bathroom to be filthy. It doesn't cost much to get a few of those pop up laundry baskets instead of using the bath. Some people cannot see or smell dirt and clutter, my dh being one of them.

Wow, looking at those pictures the PP posted, the picture 1s look cluttered to me. I can’t bear having old newspapers lying about even. The picture 2s I couldn’t cope with at all.

I think having a clear, organised home helps kids focus and relax, to be honest. There must be nothing worse than coming home from a full-on day at school to a cluttered, messy, chaotic house.

Most people I know have houses that resemble the pic 1s (st least), but I did once go into the house of a woman from one of the schools who has one DD and is a single mum and I couldn’t believe it. She’s a full-on hoarder and you have to climb over bric-a-brac to get in the front door. Over the years people have tried to get skips and help her, but she takes everything out if the skip and puts it back! It’s a serious mental illness and the house is the manifestation of it, so yes, of course it must affect her DD. She has no space to do homework for a start as every surface is piled high. The upstairs windows are blocked with old mattresses and pillows so its dark the whole time. I didn’t even go in the bathroom but O could smell it. At least half the living room is piled high with every toy the child has had since the day she was born - and this child has a ridiculous amount of “stuff” by any standards! So all the plastic baby walkers, tricycles, about 7 bikes, various scooters, just about every plastic item from the Early Learning Centre piled high to the ceiling. This child is now 11. On the day I was there, the mum had ordered her another new bike for her birthday and and another scooter in a box but they couldn’t get it into the hall. All dishes are piled high dirty in the kitchen, so you just wash one as you go. I just don’t know how to help her. Her DH left her because of it.

Are the children kept clean and well looked after? I’d be particularly concerned if that was an issue. Having the house so unclean too may be a sign of depression etc which might always be evident in everyday conversation.
Having stuff/ clutter around wouldn’t be an issue for me.

I like Pp who said organised mess in boxes. Same! I think it gives the appearance of tidierness or neatness. Meaning a box for post.
A box for memories
A box for Baby clothes etc.
They're not organised in date or anything but they each have a place.

And for the other poster who finds the cleaning overwhelming and where do you start? Somewhere. Not being flippant. If you do have 20 minutes, of course you cannot do it all, but maybe 20 minutes in the kitchen one day, 20 minutes in the bathroom another. So and so forth. None of us who like a tidy home can do it all - whatever some people say.

I'm finding this all quite difficult. I'm an adoptive mum. My son experienced severe neglect - you need to be thinking animal faeces on the floor, flies on rotting food, no bed sheets or blankets, sometimes no bed, overflowing ashtrays, drug paraphernalia. He was hospitalised once after ingesting something he found on the kitchen floor- the kitchen was also his 'bedroom' at the time. He was underweight and mute at 4.
I wonder what some of you would make of my house. There are two of us in a three bed house. It's a terrace. We have no garage, usable loft, utility, playroom or office. We are not what you would call minimalist. We have lots of books and board games, lots of pictures on the walls, framed photos on the mantlepieces, fish tank, cat bed, usually a few vases of flowers, currently 4 as I've been ill and friends are kind. There are lots of cushions and snuggly blankets on the sofas. There is usually a pile of post and paperwork on the dining room table, a pile of newspapers and magazines on a side table. My kitchen does not have much cupboard or storage space or counter tops. Kettle, toaster, veg rack, fruit bowl, knife block, microwave, storage jars for tea etc - that takes up all the space. There is usually a pile of washing in front of the washing machine, the dining room currently sports a clothes airer, the sheets are draped over the bannister drying. There is usually the trolley which trundles between the house and the allotment, at peak harvesting there will be baskets of produce taking up more space. Bathroom is similarly tiny. Bedrooms - lots of stuff living in boxes on top of wardrobes, more books, spare bedroom aka the room of doom, has the ironing, filling cabinet, more storage boxes, sometimes you can't see the floor.
No I can't dust everything every week, its often very untidy but what needs to be clean is clean, bathroom and kitchen surfaces and floor, carpets vacuumed. But a lot of you would just see 'stuff'.
My son is thriving.

We are away for the weekend and if anyone were to go into the house, they would call social services on us. We left in a rush and there is stuff flung all over the place. Dirty washing in piles as I needed to get certain things for the weekend etc. Clothes all over the floor as I searched for specific stuff and toys everywhere as we tried to distract the toddler so we could pack and feed 1 month old dd. This is not how it normally looks but someone having a sneaky look around would probably judge us unfavourably on the evidence of it.

But a lot of you would just see 'stuff'.

Well that’s because it is stuff. Just like the rest of us all have stuff all over our houses. I’m not sure what you think is wrong with your home?

No I just never ever get time to de clutter
Any spare time will go on actual cleaning to ensure kitchen and bathrooms cleaned every day and everywhere else to a standard with antibacterial wipes and a Hoover then extra time is washing/homework/reading/cooking there just isn’t time ever to tackle the clutter. I’m telling myself that time will come when they are all at school as youngest not even at pre school yet.

Houses def can be cluttered yet still clean. You just tend to move stuff around to clean under it then push it back

I’ve found out today that the kids I see in a house that’s a 5 at least have been going to neighbours to ask for food. The toddler has also got hold of scissors and cut all his hair off as he was not being supervised (obvs)
I know what I have to do.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my home, if I did I would sort it out, but some people have expressed near horror at the sight of a cereal box on top of a fridge and a few newspapers on a table, or that picture 1 is messy.
My house will never be a 1, the kitchen in particular rarely looks tidy, it doesn't mean its not clean

OP SS would be interested in your friends house. Having things piled in the bath and sink means it is more difficult for the children to keep clean. The kids bedrooms floors being so cluttered you can not imagine how they get to their bed, is a major trip hazard for the kids.

SS do not care about untidyness, although if your house is to messy to allow your kids friends to see it, then you really need to get on top of it.
Houses should be hygenic to cook in and people should be able to use the bathroom fine and it be reasonably clean. People should be able to move around a house with too much difficulty and easily be able to find clean clothes.

My house will never be a 1, the kitchen in particular rarely looks tidy, it doesn't mean its not clean

It doesn’t have to be a 1 to be perfectly fine! And pretty much everyone here has said there is a difference between cluttered and dirty. I’m not sure why youve taken offence at people having different levels of what they personally are comfortable with.

I feel affected by it hence I am relatively tidy and wouldn’t let the bathroom and kitchen be really dirty
My house growing up was old shabby and dirty. Aside from not ever wanting anyone to visit it was not like our parents spent the extra time doing anything with us either. One was drinking and the other was always smoking in the kitchen
I just don’t see the need for it, unless it is a mental health issue, I just don’t feel it is a positive way to raise kids essentially all living in your own filth.

I was lucky to grow up in a very tidy home. My mum is very house proud and maybe I just took it for granted?

I wouldn't call that lucky, i'd call that uncomfortable.
I remember in my teens (40 yrs ago) one of my friends lived in a house like this, and it was the one house none of us liked to go to. It made us uncomfortable.

I am pretty surprised by the clutter rating scale though. Before looking, I'd have said my home is cluttered - I get frustrated by it sometimes and would like someone supportive to help me, in truth. However I am no worse than a '2' on any of those photos.

I wish people didn’t assume it must be so stifling to be tidy and clean
It’s not
I did my general housework in 1 hour today because it’s just easier to clean because it’s tidy
No one is being stifled, DC have messy rooms usually and I’m not bothered but everyone has clean clothes a clean kitchen and a clean bath sink and toilet to use
Everyone knows where their shoes and coats are
And I have a cat and a dog
I don’t dedicate my life to it and it doesn’t negatively affect the DC
It does not always equal people only letting kids play with 1 toy at a time either

So feeding her cats involves snooping?

Pookie, the OP was claiming she was "lucky" to be brought up in a very tidy home.
I think people are pointing out that is very subjective. OP might think it lucky, others are of the opinion it can be stifling. Their feelings are just as valid.

My son's dads house is like this. As is his parents. My ds didn't notice so much when he was little but as he got older he hated it. He had our house to compare it to though. He started holding on til he got home to our house to use the toilet. Wouldn't use their shower, was scared to eat the food. Eventually refused to go.

Yes informed ss.

I'm not the one suggesting that social services be informed because the level of tidiness falls below what I am comfortable with.
The original question was does a messy house negatively affect a child and then goes on to say that the children are happy and doing well at school. Nowhere does she say that the kids are dirty, hungry or lack clean clothes.
I am merely trying to point out the difference between the abject squalor that my son lived in and which took social services four years to remove him from, and a home which is cluttered and untidy and maybe not quite as clean as it could be.
As another poster has pointed out, they have gone on holiday in a rush and left their house in a state. As have I. Day to day I give most attention to the parts of my house the unexpected caller might see - but upstairs, most of the time its looks like a burglar has ransacked it ( and yes I have been burgled and know what it looks like when a burglar has been through my knicker draw)

I do wish spending time cleaning or tidying wasn't seen by some as time not spent with children. For one they can assist. My Dd begs to wash up - She's 5, so she gets to wash up her plastics cups etc from time to time - because what child doesn't love water? But she can also mop, vacuum and clean a mirror reasonably okay. She is then proud of her work put towards the house and thinks its fun to.
We also do all the normal things of a childhood like park, play in the garden, construct Lego etc. Make clay thing, transform boxes into whatever.

I wish people didn’t assume it must be so stifling to be tidy and clean

Pookie I agree with you, and it's true for kids as well. People have said kids in tidy houses aren't allowed to get toys out but it's opposite - kids in tidy houses play with their toys a lot more because the toys are accessible and not broken or lost. A few toys on shelves will get played with a lot, whereas 100 toys in a heap in the ground won't get touched.