Does a messy home negatively affect a child's upbringing?

[MaryPopppins]

A friend of mine has gone away for the week and as an emergency needed me to feed her cats and let them in and out as her mum is also away and normally does it.

I've only been in her living room and kitchen before. They're both very cluttered, no space on sides anywhere. And lots of collections. But I guess I'm used to it and look past it as kids are normally running round playing and we only tend to pop in for an hour or two here and there.

But today saw the bedrooms and bathroom for the first time. And was really quite shocked and saddened.

(It's a bungalow, you have to pass the kids 2 bedrooms and the bathroom to get into the lounge and kitchen, wasn't snooping. Normally the doors are shut.)

The kids bedrooms were covered. I can't quite figure out how they get into and out of bed. And the bath was piled high with dirty washing and towels. Toilet all brown, even the seat, sink full of bath toys. Every windowsill is full of stuff so they wouldn't be able to open/close curtains etc.

If I'd seen photos online I'd assume it was of mentally unwell people or old people who needed help. (I will admit to being a germ phonic person. Quite obsessed.)

But they're smart, and the kids are smart, quite cheeky boisterous children but they're happy enough and doing fine at school.

Am I blinkered and terribly judgemental and that's a fine way to live? Will it effect the kids negatively?

I'm not concerned for their emotional well being. But I suddenly feel really sad for them seeing where they sleep/are supposed to get clean.

I was lucky to grow up in a very tidy home. My mum is very house proud and maybe I just took it for granted?

I feel like offering help would insult them. They're very capable. Maybe they're overwhelmed?

I can see myself that when everything is tidy and clean that I feel better, lighter, just easier in myself so I'm sure the kids feel the same way

I don't know why you'd assume that,I know 3 men off the top of my head who think the same.

I can see myself that when everything is tidy and clean that I feel better, lighter, just easier in myself so I'm sure the kids feel the same way

I only feel marginally better after a clean because of judgment and pressure to do it(mainly after I had DD). Before her I was a total slob and happy like that.

As a child I lived and thrived in what my parents called chaos. The house was immaculate,everything in it's place(some things lined up with a ruler) but my room was a total tip. It was also my safe haven, where I could relax and touch things and dump them and move them and do whatever the fuck I wanted. I hated when they came in and "tidied", mostly because I couldn't find anything again and it didn't feel mine.And when I tried to do it myself , it was never good enough... the bed wasn't made well enough or straight enough, why was there a pair of jeans on the chair, the desk wasn't empty enough etc

Yoursarcasm

That reminds me of a conversion I had with my ADHD daughter yesterday when trying to get her to tidy her room.

„But wouldn‘t you like to know where all your stuff is?“

„But I know where it is! Iz‘s On the floor!“

Yeah that was me. There was a method to the madness and despite the clutter and mess I could find most things with my eyes shut in minutes. I guess when you throw most of the things you need in one place,there's only one place you need to look .

The only times I couldn't find things was when someone moved them to "their right place" or tidied. Now that did make me anxious .

I’m as bad really. Her room stresses me out because I feel

1- it’s my responsibility to ensure she has a clean and tidy space. She’s only 7
2- I find it difficult enough to keep my own stuff tidy, without having to look after someone else’s!
3- I want to teach her strategies to help herself without stifling and stressing her, but it’s so hard when I struggle with it myself
4- when I do manage to spend time and energy sorting and cleaning her room she refuses point blank to join in and then will completely it mess it up again within a day or 2.

I can see myself that when everything is tidy and clean that I feel better, lighter, just easier in myself so I'm sure the kids feel the same way

Funny how no man, ever, seems to have thought this
My DP is.
Maybe my house would be filthy without him.

@gingerginger2 some tips that might help or make things even worse. It can go either way.

A big box or designated area for her "nest"(God I miss having a nest). Stuff that she can chuck in and just have close to hand that you don't interfere with unless it's overflowing or dangerous or smelly.

Some non negotiable rules. Keep these to a minimum and they on yours and her needs. For example no specific toys in the bedroom or clothes go either in the wash basket or on a chair if ok to wear again.

Don't keep everything that belongs to her in there just because it's her bedroom.

Clear instructions of what she needs to do and how. For example: put this in your uniform drawer, these go on the bookshelf, put these on the desk.

Label storage(if you can ) and ensure she has enough .

If you need to hoover for example just tell her you need the floor to be clear and anything left behind is at risk of being sucked up and that's that. From experience there will be a mess again behind you, but she will slowly start to put a few things away(even if it's in the "nest" box).

Review nest box a few times a year either with her or she can do it herself as long as some things get thrown away(there will always be stuff that needs to be thrown away).

Don't sweat the small stuff , if she left her socks on the floor, pop them in the wash basket and don't fuss. The house won't crumble even for a week's worth of socks on the floor.

Get her involved in general cleaning around the house from jobs that are hers, to chores that get rewarded, to having some fun (chat about anything and everything while doing it,put some music on, use sponges and water,make it a competition etc)

When all else fails...Bribery works

-I can see myself that when everything is tidy and clean that I feel better, lighter, just easier in myself so I'm sure the kids feel the same way.-

@Cobh -" Funny how no man, ever, seems to have thought this."

My husband 100% thinks like this. He sleeps better if the bedroom is tidy. Relaxes better if the living room isn't cluttered. And so he's very good at housework.

I probably do a bit more as I'm home more than him. But he certainly doesn't leave things just because I'll do them. And vice versa me to him.

We all have to live in the house so we all want to keep it nice.

If I couldn't be certain my own toilet was clean, or food prepared in my own kitchen wasn't going to make my child ill. Then I'd really feel down.

And @Cobh my husband cares WAY more about the tidiness level of the house if we're having visitors.

Even when it's my mum who comes over a few days a week and enjoys helping me with bits when here.

Why does your mother come over to clean several times a week?

A good fix of how clean is your house, gives me motivation .
A friend of mine looked quite immaculate, and children. Her house was clean (toilet could've done with a daily spritz but otherwise no dirt). But every inch of table, worktop covered in hoarder type style. O knew she just didn't see it as that.Stuff everywhere. I could never work out if the stuff kept dirt away or if she moved items and cleaned, put back. Upstairs as bad, and the darkest house ever. Never once did she say excuse mess as I would.

DH is much tidier than me - he is naturally tidy whereas I am a total slob keeping my slobbish tendencies in check because I feel better living in a tidy home. I agree that DH is more explicit about the tidiness of the house if we have guests (so we have regular parties!) and will enlist everyone to tidy up with him. Day to day I can see it stresses him out but he might not connect it to the mess - If he walks into the house and it looks like a tornado hit it, I can see his shoulders tense up and he immediately starts straightening up but often he will attribute it to a bad day or a lot on his mind. When he walks into a tidy house he puts his bag down and stretches and it's like he can relax and no tidying to do.

We really do have too much stuff at the moment though, thank goodness we are moving in the summer and can park down our belongings.

Meeting somewhere in the middle between having an immaculate home or a tip is important imo.

I am house proud, OCD and spend too much time cleaning. I wish I could relax more and chill out but I struggle with this. I feel guilty that I can clean too much. But then again my kids don’t really miss out, we go on days out, go to the park etc. But I can never relax thinking about what I can clean next.

In your friends case she’s clearly struggling to keep on top of any of it and needs some help. It sounds really unhygienic. I could not leave a house a mess at all if I was going away!

Whilst it not affect the kids drastically. I am a firm believe in tidy house, tidy mind.

Years ago aged about 17 I went out with a guy, his mums house was an absolute tip. I used to cringe when going over there (probably which started my obsessions with cleaning). It was dirty, clutter everywhere, didn’t look like anything was cleaned ever. The youngest sibling has left school 2-3 years prior and her school books were still left lying around never picked up! Their old toys were still around. (Bf was 20 and his younger sister was 18 so no excuse). I always used to go home for a shower after going over there. It was grimy. His mum worked long hours but his younger sister wasn’t in college and home all day most days. So surely she could buck up and help??

Despite this, their older sister who had moved out at a young age had an immaculate home. It’s like growing up in filth had made her obsess over cleaning.

Homes with children are very rarely ‘show homes’. Toys, laundry, school books are often everywhere and a little cluttered but it doesn’t mean it can’t by hygienic. I like to keep my home fresh and hygienic for them. I’ve been told that too much cleaning can make children ill (I don’t use heavy chemicals) but to be honest they are never ill.

I know somebody’s who’s house was that bad social services were involved and told her she needed to sort it out. I’ve only been in her house once and never again. She’s a great mom in other ways. But it was pure filth. The kids used to pee and poo in places whilst potty training and it was never cleaned so it absolutely stank in there, then they got s dog and never cleaned up after it. Milk from baby bottles were spilt and not cleaned up. Food and drink/milk spilt and not cleaned up, grime everywhere. Her kitchen was filthy and never cleaned at all. It would of been more hygienic not to wash your hands there as the sink was grimy and full of clutter so you couldn’t really use it(I deciddd not to use the toilet). There was thick grime around the skirting board, radiators, doors etc. The kids bedrooms were filthy with left over food, wrappers, bottles and cups under the bed rotting. Her kids were always ill too.

I grew up in a house that was falling apart and I was ashamed to have people over as a teenager, but my mum was a single parent on a low income with 3 kids. The house was never going to look great. At the time I didn't see how hard it would have been for her.

I have 2 kids in a two bed flat now and work full time. I have OH here too and even then, it's still a struggle, but it's in much better condition than what I grew up with. Neither of us have a low income, but rent is high and I have to upcycle or buy second hand furniture most of the time. We also have little space. A lot of people say it's nice here, but I just see work that needs doing all the time! I'm trying to find ways to free up some time for home/self care. It's futile though - my 4 year old thought it was funny to rub tomato sauce all over his face yesterday. That's what I'm dealing with here!

To be honest I think you are being judgemental. Not everyone has the money or help from family, and not everyone has the time to have an immaculate home. It shouldn't really be a competition, as not everyone starts out with the same circumstances.

If you are that concerned offer to help. Some people are just overwhelmed and need a place to start.

That aside, most people I know who have grown up in an immaculate home have turned out quite slobbish in adulthood. Their mother did everything and they expect the cleaning fairy (muggins here) to clean everything for them. Luckily my OH isn't like this.

I grew up in a ridiculously cluttered and dirty home, i hated it. Always felt awkward and even though i tried to clean never really knew what i was doing. Twenty years later and i am always on top of things. Washing on daily and ironed once dry. Bedrooms tidied every day and everything gets a wipe down. The only room that i dont keep spotless is the playroom as its a space for my ds to do as he pleases. But i am teaching him the basics as i go as i have a sibling who never learned to do anything and now his house is vile, hate going there as its dirty and cluttered

OP - my DH is the same. I'm like 'it's just my sister' (or whoever), but he'll still have a zoom-around tidy and hoover.

My DH is definitely not slovenly nor does he expect me to do it all either. We are a partnership and equal.
I am thankful we both enjoy living in a clean home

That's sad clockwork this is why I feel for these children I know.
I was a single parent for 7 years with a professional, stressful job and a side business. I know it's hard for people but kids don't get a choice.

I can clearly remember a child at primary school who obviously came from a filthy home. He mostly always looked unwashed and had poorly fitting clothes, hair was unkept etc. Kids weren't outrightly mean to the boy, but kept their distance at times because his hygiene wasn't very good. Even as a young kid, I could tell the teachers pitied him and paid him attention. I swear to this day I can still see his sad face etched into my mind and it still upsets me. I have no reason to believe he was mistreated by his parents as he was well fed, had school supplies etc. but the embarrassment of his upbringing was SO very evident.

@Iseverynametaken - you could be describing me and, believe me, I was every bit as sad as you say he looked.

I remember the child like that in my class too

I'm hearing a lot of faux-concern for 'the children' on this thread, when in fact several people have said that while the houses various children came from were not up to the poster's own punctilious standards, the children and their parents were clean and well-presented.

It's a fundamental requirement of parenting to make sure your kids are clean, warm, fed and not endangered by their environment.

Absolutely. No one is disagreeing. But in virtually all the cases people seem to be discussing here, these basic requirements are being fulfilled, as I would assume that if not, the posters who are clucking about unwiped worktops and laundry piles would be picking up the phone to SS.

There's a giant gap between a home environment which is actually dangerous to children and the kind of anxious houseproudness so many Mumsnetters almost boast about in threads about how late it is when they sit down at night, or about how, despite being SAHMs to school-age children, they spend the entire schoolday on housework.

You may think that a tidy house equals a tidy mind, and you're entitled to, and clearly it is for some people, but to be honest, assuming that the house isn't actually unhygienic or unusable by its inhabitants, how clean and tidy your house is beyond basic standards is a moral neutral. You're not a better person or a better parent if you can check your teeth for lipstick in your shiny splashback.

Phare You have no idea how those children actually feel about their home. And there are lots of adults who grew up in homes like that telling you exactly how they felt.

@jennymanara, none of us know how these children feel, and none of us really know the condition of this house.
Other posters have told us how they felt in their homes, but none of them are these children in this home.
As I have said , I am at the more 'relaxed' end of the scale, I have stuff and clutter, sometimes horror of horrors I leave the washing up to the next day - that does not equate to living in filth and chaos. My son has a clean uniform everyday, space to do his homework, we eat at a dining table. School letters are dealt with on the same day and go straight back in his school bag. Ours is the go to house for his mates to hang out, the sleepovers are always here. The social workers and therapists who traipse in and out always say how cosy it is.
Why can people not get their their heads round the fact that there is a difference between living in squalor and and untidiness, that some of us do not have palpitations at the sight of a cereal box in a kitchen.
The OPs question was about a 'messy' house, not a filthy house. She has very unfairly posted on a public forum, about a snapshot in time. She had said the kids are smart , happy and doing well is school.
And tellingly she says that she is germ phobic and obsessed - so maybe, just maybe, she is seeing more to this than there is.

My mother was always immaculately turned out. Clean hair, trips to the hairdresser every six weeks, lipstick, clean clothes, shoes, no ladders in her tights.

I still grew up in filth and danger from the state of the house - the reason why she always had clean clothes is that she bought more to put on the top of the piles every few weeks. And I wasn't quite the 'dirty' kid (the one that smelled of wee had that title), as I was permitted one bath on a Sunday night. My teeth were yellow as I wasn't allowed to brush them, I was still filthy as I wasn't allowed to wash the rest of the week - and I still got the nickname of Greeeeeaseball! (as it was shouted at me by the other kids) as soon as puberty hit. When I wasn't being called a tramp or told 'you live in a bin' because of the permanent layers of animal hair over my supposedly washed clothes. My school shirts - both of them - were also stained yellow from sweat once I hit 12, as I had to wear them for 3 + 2 days (assuming that they weren't returned to me unwashed because 'they aren't dirty yet').

I am just glad that the day I found a cat flea in my ear was one where nobody was sitting near me in class.