Does a messy home negatively affect a child's upbringing?

[MaryPopppins]

A friend of mine has gone away for the week and as an emergency needed me to feed her cats and let them in and out as her mum is also away and normally does it.

I've only been in her living room and kitchen before. They're both very cluttered, no space on sides anywhere. And lots of collections. But I guess I'm used to it and look past it as kids are normally running round playing and we only tend to pop in for an hour or two here and there.

But today saw the bedrooms and bathroom for the first time. And was really quite shocked and saddened.

(It's a bungalow, you have to pass the kids 2 bedrooms and the bathroom to get into the lounge and kitchen, wasn't snooping. Normally the doors are shut.)

The kids bedrooms were covered. I can't quite figure out how they get into and out of bed. And the bath was piled high with dirty washing and towels. Toilet all brown, even the seat, sink full of bath toys. Every windowsill is full of stuff so they wouldn't be able to open/close curtains etc.

If I'd seen photos online I'd assume it was of mentally unwell people or old people who needed help. (I will admit to being a germ phonic person. Quite obsessed.)

But they're smart, and the kids are smart, quite cheeky boisterous children but they're happy enough and doing fine at school.

Am I blinkered and terribly judgemental and that's a fine way to live? Will it effect the kids negatively?

I'm not concerned for their emotional well being. But I suddenly feel really sad for them seeing where they sleep/are supposed to get clean.

I was lucky to grow up in a very tidy home. My mum is very house proud and maybe I just took it for granted?

I feel like offering help would insult them. They're very capable. Maybe they're overwhelmed?

Fatted Are you my sister? I know you aren’t, but you have described my upbringing to a T. Our house was untidy and dirty. I never allowed any of my friends into the kitchen as I was so embarrassed. I am the opposite, but not extreme about it, but I hate clutter. Like you I find it really claustrophobic.

Most people seem to think that you either have an untidy/dirty house but spend loads of time with your children, or you have a clean and tidy house and don’t engage with your children at all.

“Too busy living life to be cleaning and doing chores”

I disagree. Replace “busy” with “lazy”.

There is a halfway house though, and I like to think that I have achieved it. My house is always clean, but not always tidy, just usually tidyish. Quite frankly, I hate the superiority of some people who seem to think that having a messy house is better because the children get more attention. I think some parents use this as an excuse to cover up their laziness.

“A scrupulously tidy home is likely to affect the child negatively”

In what way?

I am not a hoarder. Both of my parents were, and my sister and I had to get rid of loads of stuff after they died. Also, we have moved house 5 times during our married life and tend to discard (recycle/donate to charity) anything that doesn’t serve a useful purpose.

I’m not house proud. Our house is a home, not a show house.

I would hate anything beyond 2. The children can play but as soon as they are in bed I tidy it all away.

I would have for my children to be embarrassed to have their friends round

Well I think 1 is messy in those pics. I clearly have issues...

But -

I grew up with a mum who had schizophrenia and chronic physical health conditions in the 1980s when there was no social care intervention for me. Our house was awful, really awful. Mum never, ever cleaned. When I was really little it didn’t matter because I didn’t have a point of reference, I thought that’s how everyone’s house was. As I got older and went to others houses I realised how bad mine was and I was ashamed. I would never invite anyone over, ever.

As an adult I have gone the opposite and love cleaning. I want my dc to feel they can bring anyone round whenever so keep a really clean and tidy home. I think it does matter, but clearly sometimes like my mum people aren’t able to do that.

There's a difference between messy and dirty. I keep my house clean and tidy but when the kids are actually playing, it's organised chaos. Stuff everywhere. But it's tidied up again at night.

But actual filth is a different thing and really shouldn't have kids in a properly dirty house. A brown toilet? That's not good.

Blimey I couldn't bear my rooms to be the same as in picture 2. Do people actually have clothes just lying around on the floor.( excluding teenage boys rooms which apparently is 'normal' according to my teenage boys) I am in no way whatsoever a clean freak but that would be awful

I agree with previous posters, I think there is a mid way of a home being lived in but clean and reasonably tidy.
My mum used to keep a clean house, we used to be able to leave our toys out in the games room but in the main living room we had to tidy as we finishing playing with individual toys. Both my brother and myself are probably not as tidy as we should be. So maybe we have gone against our upbringing.

It sounds like at a glance your friend is maybe struggling, or she is in the middle of a mass sort out and everything is just being sorted. It is however, as you say, be really difficult for you to bring it up if she doesn't raise the topic first.

It doesn't however seem to be affecting the children in the way you were concerned about, maybe wait and see if she mentions something and jump in with an offer of help if it arises.

It sounds filthy and neglectful. It doesnt mean that if the kids are smart and seem happy that they are well cared for. They probably have just gotten use to living in such conditions that it's their norm!. No that doesnt sound normal. It sounds dirty and awful.

@mumof2kids - those pictures were very eye opening! I have to say to me I found the no.1 pictures a bit messier than I would like ideally. Not that my house is usually that tidy but it's how I like it. The no.2 pictures to me were an utter disgrace. Like in the kitchen it wasn't messy as in there is some washing up to do, some mugs on the table and the sides need sorting. It was stuff thrown all over the floor and piles of newspapers. Wow!

I think picture 1 is messy, those cereal boxes being out make it look untidy to me. I couldn't live in any of the others.

Wow that scale is eye opening. But sort of hard to put her house on.

The kitchen is maybe a 5 - but you can walk on the floor. But table and sides are FULL.

Bedrooms I saw 5/6 but beds mostly clear a few toys on them but space for sleeping.

And living room 3/4 but you can sit on the sofa.

So I guess it is quite extreme if 4 is where the concern starts.

It's not really a great example though I think as all the 2s are kind of awful....

Gosh that sounds really bad. You can be untidy but filthy, uncleaned toilets 🤢🤮 are disgusting and neglectful. Unchanged beds are filthy as well as is a dirty kitchen. My grandmother was a hoarder. When she died we had to get her house sorted. The window had to be taken out so the rubbish could be thrown out into a skip. My poor mother was so upset as she had tried to offer help. My mums house is clean and tidy, mine is a 1 and my daughters is a minus 1! I suspect your friend is overwhelmed but just might not be bothered now. Does her husband help?

How can anyone claim that a house is cluttered but clean. It is not possible to clean if there is stuff all over! Do you really think that people will remove the clutter, clean the surfaces under it and then replace the clutter - that is living in cloud cuckoo land and clearly never done cleaning in their life.

A cluttered house IS by definition a dirty house. Sheesh.

Dirty is not good but the clutter etc is just your interpretation.

I often worry about overly tidy and clean people, is it not a bit neurotic and unhealthy to be obsessively cleaning all the time??

Also, I notice that you give the responsibility to the mum for this? Perhaps there isn't a dad in the mix? Or maybe you're unfairly assigning the cleaning tasks to the woman of the house?

I don't go in for prissy, but I know someone who was a determined non-cleaner thanks to her upbringing by an awf'ly perfick mother. When this girl had kids, the second baby ended up in ITU with awful poisoning from her floors.

So, yes.

"“A scrupulously tidy home is likely to affect the child negatively”

In what way?"

I can answer this on behalf of DH, who grew up in a show home.

• He wasn't allowed to have friends over in case they made the place dirty.

• Slippers had to be worn at all times so that nobody left sock fluff on the carpet and he says he never really relaxed at home because of these kind of rules (suffers from anxiety now as an adult).

• He wasn't allowed to learn to cook or bake at home because he'd make a mess so missed out on life skills.

• He is an absolute slob these days, it's like he's making up for lost time after being released from the cosh of MIL cleaning obsession (I love MIL, btw, she;s wonderful, but still cleaning obsessed).

'Awful poisoning from floors'

... sounds like made up nonsense.

"When this girl had kids, the second baby ended up in ITU with awful poisoning from her floors. "

Who diagnosed 'floor poisioning' the hospital?

'Awful poisoning from her floors' too.

It's always the woman's responsibility, obviously.

I grew up in an incredibly cluttered house. The amount of stuff meant it was dirty, it could not be cleaned properly. I didn't notice until I hit the pre teen years. Then my friend told me my house was dirty. I was 10 and I suddenly became very ashamed. I remember cleaning the bathroom and frantically hiding stuff before people came round and feeling utterly embarrassed at the shit on our driveway. I did well in school, wasn't neglected and to look at me you would think it never affected me.
Well it has! I find it extremely difficult as an adult to relax if there is any mess anywhere. In my 20s I would obsessively clean in order to feel calm. Growing up in mess definitely affected me and I wish my house had been "normal".

I remember being embarrassed about how untidy our house was when my friends came round when I was younger. But my mum and dad were always so welcoming to my friends, nothing was too much trouble.

My mum worked full time and had 3 kids. I work and have two young children and our house is a tip. I desperately wish our house was tidier but I'm so exhausted and barely have enough hours in the day.

And I feel awful that I was embarrassed about the mess, when actually my Mum was juggling work, 3 kids, my Dad didn't get home until 7pm at least every night, she was probably exhausted and just tried to survived the best she could. Kind of like I do now.

Funnily enough, now she's retired and doesn't have 3 kids at home, her house is immaculate

Grim. It will affect the children, they’ll be too embarrassed to bring friends home

My friend's house is like that. Really cluttered. It's too small for them too with not enough storage. I think that a tidy bedroom is important for kids (and adults alike). But, my kids probably wouldn't give a hoot. My friend spends a lot of time out of the house taking her kids to museums, swimming, socializing. She spends time with them over doing housework. They are very happy kids. I think that, if a house is too tidy/clean, then the parents spend more time cleaning and less time playing.

It seems like there are quite a few of us who had embarrassingly messy parents.

My friend's place is very messy and yes I do think it can affect DC. Thankfully her home isn't dirty! Well actually it probably is beneath the mess (crumbs/dirt etc.) But her DD has SO much stuff and my friend never gets rid of anything so it just builds and builds and it isn't organised so most of the stuff gets forgotten about. I struggle to see how her DD can play when it is so chaotic. Her DD always needs my friend to join in or she'll just want to watch tv and part of me can't help but wonder that if her DD had a clear platform to play on then her DD would feel more inspired to play on her own and use her imagination. I say this because if my D'S room becomes messy then he chooses not to go in there but as soon as we've tidied it he's racing in there excited to play and he can see all his toys and he knows where they are etc. I am just basing this on my own DS so I could be wrong.

When my friend visits mine she says things like "sitting in this living room now, you wouldn't think you had a DC, I'm amazed at how tidy it is" and I she's making a dig and it pisses me off because where I'm in a flat and my son's room is next door I don't need a hoard of toys in the living room. And if you look around properly you'll see a display of his art work and on the table there is a craft box and a roll of paper that he has access to any time. We've even got a chalkboard in there now! That comment really pisses me off as you can probably tell!

Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant!

I've seen this in my own family. Three adults who as children were never allowed a friend to play, and who were eventually removed by social services due to the state of their house. Particular highlights include crawling through broken glass on the floor when one was a toddler, and another developing food poisoning so severe that they were at death's door. They, understandably, are deeply damaged by the fact that their parents (not drug addicts or alcoholics or anything like that, just people who thought it was no one's business what their house was like) preferred to lose them than to clean. As adults they no longer visit, unsurprisingly. And their parents can't understand why.