To ask for help with smacking?

[BeeLoverBe]

I've name changed for this as I'm clearly going to get flamed but need advice as I cant discuss this with anyone in RL.

Background is, I was smacked as a child and to be honest I dont think it did me any harm. Not abusively but when I did something really naughty I would get a smack on the bum or across the back of the legs.

I smacked my two children when they were toddlers, again not excessively but I did do it. My youngest is now 6 and she is extremely trying with her poor attitude in particular answering me back, acting up and saying horrible things to me.

Yesterday she screamed in my face and for the first time in ages I smacked her. It clearly took her by surprise as she looked shocked and then cried. I felt guilty afterwards and have mixed emotions about it. I have been at the end of my tether with her recently and her behaviour. I have tried the usual naughty step, confiscating things, reward charts etc and nothing works as she doesnt care. I've spoken to her teachers and they say shes not like it at school. So the smacking was me losing my temper out of exhausting all other avenues, which I know I shouldn't have done.

Yesterday she said something really horrible to me and I very nearly smacked her again but didnt. Hence why I'm here to ask for advice and help. It's a taboo subject that no one discusses is RL so in the event that I will get blamed for being an awful mother, I've come here to ask for help

I promise you that walking away and stonewalling bad behaviour will honestly get you further in the long run than smacking.

Smacking will lose its effectiveness and then what? A ruler across the knuckles?

You recognise that what you are doing is fundamentally out of line - and I say that as someone who has wanted to smack my DDs bum on several occasions - but honestly you need to walk the fuck away and if need be shut your DD out of the room you are in until you count to ten and calm it.

The same goes for bellowing. I’m hothead who can blow up in moments and I bellow. But I have to dig so deep with the children and in my head pretend to be their nursery worker - just for that moment - to avoid exploding at her and (basically) frightening her.

Parenting is extremely hard and I’m not one of these people who thinks that all children must be counselled as to why they’ve stolen the only keys for the garage/headlocked her baby brother/stuck a scarf in the dishwasher/given a tonne of lip BUT smacking is a total lose-lose and you are setting yourself up to fail and your child to be ostracised should they ever use your behaviour against their peers.

Morality aside, smacking as discipline doesn’t work and should never be used.

@mussolini9 How would you know how it works? You clearly haven't the first idea about my culture so stop trying to say that you know 'exactly how it works'. I was giving my opinion on the OP from my own perspective, just as others have.

We'll done for keeping your cool yesterday OP.

If this methodology of discipline is all you have to fall back on though what happens when the shock factor wears off for her and it doesn't hurt. Will you hit harder? I'd be worried about your own lack of control and it escalating. What happens if you get a call from school that she's hit someone? Because you can't now say it's wrong.

Your description of your 6 year olds behaviour is typical of that age group so i think you need to talk to someone to get help. Are you following through on all the other non smacking punishments you threaten? Even if short term it means you lose out (going to the pictures for example, cancelling play dates).

And yes to the poster who said massively play up the good stuff. Make a real fuss if her when tucking her into bed after a "good day" and consider chatting to her casually when she's in the right frame of mind to see what's happening in her head.

Whilst hand on heart I'd never lift a finger to DD I do remember it's bloody hard when they're little. Kudos to you for wanting to change your behaviour now.

I hope you don't mind OP, but I'm going to link my AMA thread. Hopefully people can ask me anything they want to know there, so your thread can go back to being about you. Apologies.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3479041-Im-a-traveller-AMA

To be clear on the legal position with smacking. It isn't legal or illegal as such - there is a definition of assault under English and Scots law and defences that are used for parents who assault their child as punishment (in certain circumstances). In England (and I think Wales) this defence is "reasonable chastisement". In Scots law the defence is "justifiable assault". It is this defence that is being removed from Scots law. To be clear, you are likely assaulting a child if you smack them. It's just that the law (currently) thinks that's ok in certain circumstances.

I was hit often from when I was a small child to a teenager by a mother who had - and still has - anger issues. I echo what PPs have said in that the thing I remember is the look on her face that was clearly out of control. Hitting a child also doesn’t magically end at a certain point. For me, it just showed me that that was the way you dealt with anger. So when she would lose it when I was around 13-14 I started to hit back. This just used to escalate and escalate into full blown fist fights (no exaggeration). It also never seemed to stop. I went to uni at 18 and I would come back for summers and she would still see fit to hit me. It was a massive contributory factor in me moving out as soon as I could. Because of the example I was given, I have an extreme temper. However, I am working hard to break the cycle. I do not hit out at people when my temper boils over and I am adamant that I will not hit my children (TTC at the moment) because I know it doesn’t work as a punishment.

Ah culture. Always a fun excuse to do shitty things unquestionably.

OP you say you were smacked by your own parents and it’s done you no harm. But here you are, smacking your own child and trying to control their behaviour through aggression/physical violence.
You need help/support to manage your own anger through more constructive means, to break this cycle.

I’m bewildered by the poster above (Pinky) who said smacking a child isn’t the same as hitting an adult. Why? Because you don’t consider children as human or as feeling as adults? What a bizarre viewpoint. In actual fact it is much worse to hit a child as they are smaller, weaker, more vulnerable than an adult and unable to defend themselves. They are also completely dependent on their parent for all their physical and emotional needs. How scared and vulnerable do you then make them by hitting them? And yes, wait until they are bigger and stronger than you, to see how they treat you then.

I was reared by smacking parents - probably even classified as beatings now as sticks were involved.

None of us offspring have used slapping or smacking as a punishment. Roughly half of our kids are now teen /young adults and they've all turned out well-adjusted, polite, kind and good at conflict resolution.

I did smack my DS once as a toddler when he was being naughty. And I realised it happened because I had gotten stressed and angry, rather than a punishment that taught him something. And he immediately went back to misbehaving so my options were to either find an alternative or to hit him harder? I chose the former and I will never not feel guilty for letting my anger and frustration lead discipline that time.
You are posting here because you see it not working for you and want to find ways to correct her behaviour that don't involve smacking so good for you. And you will - try different things and you will find a punishment that DD dislikes and will try to avoid.
My DS could be sent to his room and not care. I could naughty-step him until the cows came home and he would laugh at it. He would eyeroll at the removal of a treat. What does work is threatening to remove his bedtime story, or ground him so he can't play outside for the evening.

So, once you do find something that works, do bear in mind that she is still only 6 and often they repeat naughty behaviours until they learn. It's a gradual process. Also remember at the tail end of the school year children get a bit more tired and tempermental - I know mine is like a demon as are his cousins. In a few more weeks they'll be back to being mostly cute again but for now they are wee beasts.

Schools often offer parenting courses. The Parenting Puzzle is the one that comes to mind. Useful.

Would you be happy for her teachers, after school club workers etc to smack her?

Interestingly, I smacked my son in front of my mum (who as I mentioned smacked me as a child) and she fell out with me for weeks and didnt agree with me smacking him. I could never understand that - she thought it was ok to smack me (I don't love my mum any less for smacking me and we have a great relationship) but how funny that she now thinks it's wrong for her grandchildren?

Might be because she’s learned the error of her ways OR she was reminded of herself a bit too much when she saw the beat going on with you OP.

Because she now realises it was wrong and done purely out of anger and frustration. My parents hit us and while my father now admits he was wrong to do so my mother now totally denied that she ever did it. She absolutely did, worse than my father did. Right up until my teens. The denial speaks volumes.

@mussolini9 How would you know how it works? You clearly haven't the first idea about my culture so stop trying to say that you know 'exactly how it works'.

I know how violence works @Pinkyyy

You "clearly haven't the first idea" about my background or what I know about anything.
I am disagreeing with your opinion. Also with your instruction to stop doing so.

You are wrong to agree with violence to children, & you are a prime example of what happens when children are brought up by violent adults.

If smacking/violence is part of any culture, then I’m sorry but that’s not a culture to be admired.

This is a very good book which provides a different way of thinking and approaching how children behave.

www.amazon.co.uk/Sulky-Rowdy-Rude-really-about/dp/1785922130?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

As PP have said, children who behave badly are reacting to something and attempting to communicate something. It's worth making the effort to not take the behaviour personally but instead help them learn to communicate what they're feeling in a reasonable manner, while teaching them it's ok to feel things (but that all behaviours are not ok).

I think there are two things here.

You need to recognise that you lose control when you are angry, and so you need help with your self control.

Secondly, re the parenting aspect, if you have a look at ahaparenting.com it will explain why smacking isn't a good idea, and why consequences and punishment can also be counter productive - based on evidence based research - it then covers how the best way to do it is to connect with your child, because how they behave is an indication of how they feel, plus they won't accept your instruction and guidance unless they feel connected to you emotionally and that you have their back. It also covers that it is good to be strict and have high expectations as long as you also do it with empathy and connection. And that good behaviour is to do with how children feel rather than having been punished into submission. And finally that kids are kids, they don't have the same capacity for self control and self understanding as you do, and so they will behave like kids at times, and that that may push your buttons - and here the self control comes in.

If you google "hitting children ahaparenting" that should take you to some useful first articles.

Good luck.

@Pinkyyy I also teach that hitting is okay for them too. If another child hits them, they can and do hit back. - Absolutely disgraceful parenting. All you're teaching them there is that violence is ok and that two wrongs make a right. They'll end up in prison if you carry on much longer with your lazy attitude to parenting 🤦🏼‍♀️

Ladyfatboobs
You are so right. My mother went on to use the wooden spoon. She didn’t need it for me, only my brother. He rebelled. I was very compliant and hid in my bedroom a lot and and according to her I was a very happy child - untrue, I despised myself. She ended up breaking the spoon on him, him laughing and her laughing with him. Most times he was “disciplined” for treating me badly. But it never worked and their laughter together became something conspiratorial, which they both enjoyed and in so doing made my suffering greater. I suffered from almost daily violence and abuse from him.

Just found this on Reddit , which explains what smacking can lead too and the slippery slope. www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/2o3z90/beaten_with_wooden_spoons/

So no, a smack is never just a smack.

Actually, I think the fact that Pinkyyy's children are growing up in a culture where smacking is normal is relevant. This has been studied - what is hard for children is feeling like they aren't like other children.

So if everyone you know gets smacked, you just accept it as normal. It isn't a great punishment, and it does have problems - I was smacked as a kid, and I don't think made me particularly better behaved, but it didn't traumatise me either, because I knew other parents also did it to their kids - it was just part of growing up in the 80s.

However, if nobody else you know gets smacked and you do, then the message you take onboard is that you are so much more badly behaved than other children, that normal discipline methods don't work on you and your parents have to use super-strict methods only brought out for awful children. It's really bad for your self-esteem and it does damage your relationship with your parents. That won't be the case for Pinkyyy's kids if all their friends' parents act the same way. It'll just be normal.

It's like how if you're the only kid whose parents don't come to the nativity play, you feel like shit, but if you're the only kid whose parents come to school with them every day and sit next to them in lessons, you also feel shit. (Assuming you don't have a disability or life circumstance that make it necessary). It isn't the parent being there or not being there that's bad, it's the being treated differently to everyone else and the assumption that it's because your parents don't love you/trust you/want to give you freedom. Same thing.

@MummyParanoia101 yes I am a gypsy, the term is not offensive in case you were wondering. What is offensive though, is making a generalised assumption of me based on my race. Shame on you.

I was smacked as a child, and I think in that case it becomes “normal” to you. I did smack my older two a couple of times. In all honesty it was about me losing my temper, and not having the tools to parent well, much more than it was about their behaviour. I hugely regret it and would never do it now. I’m not perfect and sometimes I lose my temper and shout (most recently at ds(12) who lost a second phone in the space of a month) which doesn’t make any of us feel good, but I guess as something that only happens rarely isn’t the worst thing. For the most part having a calm home, with clear expectations, and spending quality one to one time with each child, is what works.

@Pinkyyy They could lose their home if they don't fight.

Omg what kind of environment are you dragging your kids into? Social services need to be stepping in here