At what point does smacking children become abuse?

[Smackingchildren]

I am asking this out of curiosity as I know this type of discipline does go on (mostly behind closed doors). What is your opinion on smacking children? Do you find it to be an effective method of discipline?

I was 'smacked' as a child and teenager. It was never done in a constructive way, it was always because my dad had lost his temper. The 'smacking' would include being threatening, pushing me up and down stairs, shoving me, shouting in my face. This was mostly when I was a teenager, although there was some scattered throughout when I was younger. One such instance was when I was 3 years old and would continuously take the cushions off of the sofa and put them on the floor. My mum says that despite telling me many times to stop and doing the naughty step, I continued to do it, so my dad lost it and threw me up the stairs into my bedroom. This kind of behaviour from my parents probably happened a few times a year. My parents also used to say that I was the difficult child of the family and was always stubborn and argumentative.

Smacking didn't work for me. If anything it made me hate my dad and lose all respect for him. So rather than behaving, I would think 'well you clearly don't respect me so why should I respect you?!'

I have a five year old and I have never felt the need to smack him. Usually sending him to his room/taking a toy away/talking to him about why something is wrong stops the behaviour. I can with almost certainty say I will never smack him because of my own experience.

At what point does smacking become abusive, and do you think its an effective tool for discipline?

It is always assault.

Plain and simple.

speakout This is my point of view, but I know many disagree.

It is always abuse. Anyone who inflicts physical pain upon a defenceless child is a lowlife.

Anyone who supports it and believes it to be ok is the same.

What you described isn’t smacking at all, it’s assault. Smacking is a short tap either on the hand or bum to make a point and shouldn’t hurt. The fact that there are a lot of idiots out there (like your dad) who use it as an excuse to abuse is the reason smacking needs to be banned.

If you smack an adult then it's assault. Children are much more vulnerable than adults.

At what point does smacking children become abuse?

It is always abuse.

It’s always abuse. It’s someone who is bigger and stronger using aggression to make their point to someone that has no defence.

Snacking is always abuse. You are teaching a child that hitting is ok. You are teaching them that someone bigger and stronger than them is allowed to hurt them which opens them up to other kinds of abuse. We quite rightly are not allowed to smack adults we disagree with, so why on earth is it ok to smack a child?

Smacking is a short tap either on the hand or bum to make a point and shouldn’t hurt

So what’s the point then? If it doesn’t hurt, how can it possibly make a point?

At the same stage as smacking another adult - always.

It’s not effective. It’s abuse and those who do smack their children are utterly shit parents.

Smacking children is set to be a criminal offence in Scotland.

Hopefully the rest of the UK will follow.

It would be nice if it were simple.

I think that once when my small daughter kept kicking me after I told her not to I swiped at her legs to make her stop. The kicks had been hurting me, and I was probably doing something that needed to be done like getting her dressed when I had to pick up my stepchildren. The kicking stopped I don't think she was hurt or harmed - the swipe wasn't hard. But I didn't want to do that.

Another time when my small stepchildren were chasing round in a car park and wouldn't stop when I told them to, and I knew this was dangerous because a car might reverse into them without seeing them, I remember physically grabbing my stepdaughter and shaking her a bit as I did so.

Again I knew this wasn't behaviour that I wanted to repeat.

But I don't see this behaviour as 'assault' in the way that my father striking me hard and repeatedly around the head was assault.

Of course it's ineffective. Being in sudden pain produces chemical response in the brain inconsistent with learning or thinking clearly.

In England and Wales you can smack once on the leg but it mustn't leave a red mark. So to get yourself into the right frame of mind to smack a child correctly you must calm down enough that you can hit them with just the right amount of pressure, in just the right place. And if you can go to all the trouble of doing that wouldn't it just be easier to have a civilised conversation/ non violent consequences instead?!

Always - would you 'smack' your partner, or friend, or colleague, or parent, or someone else's child to 'teach them' or 'get them to so what you want'?

If we're teaching smacking is wrong, we shouldn't be fighting in wars. There shouldn't be any double standards.

Smacking is abuse and a sign of poor parenting. There are no exceptions to abuse.

I was smacked as a child and whilst it has had an affect on me I do not consider myself a victim of abuse. Others would.

I guess, to some extent, it's subjective and therefore there's no way to answer your question.

@speakout - that isn’t what the law (In England) says though. Reasonable Punishment is allowed under the Childrens Act 2004, but it isn’t defined. Because it is so wishy washy the Director of Public Prosecutions issued guidelines, covering serious injuries - resulting in cuts, multiple bruising, fractures, broken bones, broken teeth or loss of conscious - a parent could be charged under Actual Bodily Harm.

Broadly, smacking is never a considered and rational punishment, usually its a knee jerk reaction to a (dangerous) situation which may get out of control. Parenting is isolating and frustrating, often with little support of guidance. Parents are human and sometimes get it wrong.

Smacking is very different to a beating as described above.

Fortunately most of us probably have reasonably well behaved children who respond to reason.

At what point does smacking children become abuse?

The moment your hand connects with the child's body. It's always abuse.

Imo smacking becomes abuse as soon as the smacking adult hand touches the child, whether it's on an exposed part of the child e.g. hand or on top of clothes e.g. nappy.

Why would anyone want to inflict pain on a child unless as they're using it as a form of abuse? It's never acceptable.

It makes no logical sense to me at all as a method of “discipline”

“Don’t hit your sister!”....followed by a smack on the bum by the parent - what sort of confusing message does that send a child?
I’ve got 2 preschoolers. I totally understand losing your cool sometimes - they can be patience-testing little demons at the best of times. But I’m an adult. I’m supposed to have the emotional maturity to put a lid on my temper and not take it out on a 4yo
I’ve “smacked” my eldest once. She was about to put her hand on the closed lid of a hot bbq so I slapped her hand away out of shock and panic - and it was hard because it left a red mark on her arm! Her little face was just sheer shock. I did it out of panic trying to keep her safe - I would never want to see that look on her face because she’s scared of my temper!

I was smacked as a child. Your father’s MO sounds quite like mine. I didn’t regard, either then or now, the mere fact of being smacked as abuse or think of myself as an “abused” child -because it was a different era. I would take a different view if we were talking about a child living now, 30 years on.

Your father doesn’t sound terribly pleasant quite apart from the smacking. Is part of your lack of respect for him connected to that?

My sister was probably smacked 1 or 2 times over her childhood. Mine was much more frequent. When I have questioned my mum about this, she will say that we had very different personalities, and I was defiant to any authority or reason. But the smacking didn't stop the behaviour either, if anything it made it worse. I wasn't particularly naughty either but I would answer back, be cheeky/argumentative, sneak out of the house sometimes as an older teen.

I do sympathise with parents though if they feel they've got to the end of their tether. I was argumentative when it came to things I didn't feel were just or fair.

From a social services point of view, if it either left a mark, or was cruel or degrading punishment (that doesn't necessarily have to leave a mark but would have other worrying elements like threat/premeditation/use of another item to hit the child) then it would be investigated as abuse.
That's not to suggest SS condone smacking on any level, but those are the general tipping points for when the state would get involved (in Eng and Wales)