At what point does smacking children become abuse?

[Smackingchildren]

I am asking this out of curiosity as I know this type of discipline does go on (mostly behind closed doors). What is your opinion on smacking children? Do you find it to be an effective method of discipline?

I was 'smacked' as a child and teenager. It was never done in a constructive way, it was always because my dad had lost his temper. The 'smacking' would include being threatening, pushing me up and down stairs, shoving me, shouting in my face. This was mostly when I was a teenager, although there was some scattered throughout when I was younger. One such instance was when I was 3 years old and would continuously take the cushions off of the sofa and put them on the floor. My mum says that despite telling me many times to stop and doing the naughty step, I continued to do it, so my dad lost it and threw me up the stairs into my bedroom. This kind of behaviour from my parents probably happened a few times a year. My parents also used to say that I was the difficult child of the family and was always stubborn and argumentative.

Smacking didn't work for me. If anything it made me hate my dad and lose all respect for him. So rather than behaving, I would think 'well you clearly don't respect me so why should I respect you?!'

I have a five year old and I have never felt the need to smack him. Usually sending him to his room/taking a toy away/talking to him about why something is wrong stops the behaviour. I can with almost certainty say I will never smack him because of my own experience.

At what point does smacking become abusive, and do you think its an effective tool for discipline?

Just wondering what people’s opinions are regarding a child of almost 8 , who has autism adhd and Ld . He attack’s me on a daily basis , hits me , kicks me , spits in my face , thrown a rock at my head when out .

Sometimes I physically push him away from me , he is very strong and when I recently gave him time out he resisted so I had to physically drag/ march him to his room .

The charging standard is for a blow that has left a mark which involves more than "transient or trifling" and does more than create "temporary reddening of the skin". You'll note that was clearly written with white skin in mind.

Smacking will generally always be viewed as substandard parenting but whether its viewed as abuse that warrants statutory intervention depends a lot on context and the level of harm experienced.

Smacking will generally always be viewed as substandard parenting but whether its viewed as abuse that warrants statutory intervention depends a lot on context and the level of harm experienced

I think that is sensible. Abuse gets missed because of lack of experience or resources, not because of definitions.

I think it’s interesting though that lots of mammals will discipline their babies physically when they push behavioural boundaries too far or to keep them safe. I always think that instinctive reaction to smack in a dangerous situation or when a child has ignored all other ways of a parent trying to get them to behave is possibly as much a biological reaction of parent to child as a deliberate attempt to be abusive.

I do think there is a difference between a quick smack in a scary situation to a full out beating in anger.

loveyou3000 I’m disgusted that your dad found it appropriate to touch your bottom at all when you’re an adult woman. It’s perverted. I recall my dad smacking me aged 16 and it was just weird and sick.

My parents smacked me. It wasn't an issue at all, just a slap on the bum, thigh or hand, never hard enough to leave a mark, and only in exceptional circumstances. I definitely do not see what they did as abusive, and in my mind it isn't remotely the same as some of the awful things that people have mentioned experiencing in this thread. I would never smack my children as I do not see the need and it probably doesn't help kids learn not to hit! My Mum has told me since that if she had all the resources we have now with parenting advice she never would have done it.

Yes I would be comfortable for repeat offenders that smack and hurt their children to be sentenced to custody. I’d start with education and parenting courses, and community service followed by custody if it continued yes.
If parents can’t control themselves then social services intervention would be a positive flori

I think it’s interesting though that lots of mammals will discipline their babies physically when they push behavioural boundaries too far or to keep them safe. I always think that instinctive reaction to smack in a dangerous situation or when a child has ignored all other ways of a parent trying to get them to behave is possibly as much a biological reaction of parent to child as a deliberate attempt to be abusive.

I don't think this is a great argument. Lots of mammals kill and rape others.

Smacking is a short tap either on the hand or bum to make a point and shouldn’t hurt

Yup.
Makes the point that the adult has lost control, & the child need have no respect for them. Just fear, resentment, & contempt.

I think there is quite a difference between this, and going to get a belt or spoon or whatever to deal out a planned "punishment".

Sure, there's a difference.
There's also a difference between punching someone in the face, & going to get a knife to stab them.
That doesn't make punching someone any less criminal.

You would not expect to get away with hitting or even FFS "tapping" an adult. So how can anyone feel it's ok to hit a child?

Sorry if someone has already said this, but in Scotland the plan is to remove the clause of ‘justifiable assault’ against a child, which does not exist in law for an adult. Basically that means until the law is changed, adults have greater legal protection from physical harm than children who are generally unable to defend themselves. That is just bizarre. Also the fact there is zero evidence that smacking improves children’s behaviour.

My parents smacked me. They also caned me. It was both controlled and uncontrolled anger. I was in fear of their anger and the cane. They were otherwise loving parents and I have no doubt it was a generational and cultural thing. But I've never forgotten it, I remember it a thousand times more strongly than anything good they did. I didn't really think about it until I had my first baby, and all the rage, fear and pain came back in a rush. I look at my little boy now and as frustrating as he can be, I can't imagine inflicting that on him. Not just the physical pain, but the hate I had for my parents and I still have. I would never want DS to have those feelings towards me for doing something a bit naughty or typical of any child.

Are you slapping a small child’s hand away from something dangerous (chord, knife etc)?
That isn’t smacking. It’s reacting quickly to save your child from harm. Sometimes there’s no time to say no or explain, in a split second you just grab your child and yank them to safety.

Pulling a child out of harms way is not the same as hitting them though.

Some people hit children when danger occurs.

My mum smacked me, also in anger, with a bright red face - what I hated most was that even if I ran off and hid in my room, she'd burst in and smack me. I was powerless: she was bigger than me and had authority. I still really, really hate people shouting at me or feeling powerless.

I didn't live with my dad, but he never smacked me. I remember doing something naughty as a child - stealing a sweet from a shop - and he went all solemn, told me how bad it was and made me take it back and apologise.

With my daughter I smacked her on the hand a couple of times simply as I didn't know what else you could do. She told me not to in such an outraged voice that I was thoroughly ashamed and never tried it again. Took me a while to work out an alternative strategy, but well, parenting does indeed require a little thought and practice. I personally think the non-violent methods work better.

^Sure, there's a difference.
There's also a difference between punching someone in the face, & going to get a knife to stab them.
That doesn't make punching someone any less criminal.

You would not expect to get away with hitting or even FFS "tapping" an adult. So how can anyone feel it's ok to hit a child?^

Punching someone is considerably "less criminal" which is why it attracts a lighter sentence, or isn't always prosecuted at all. Both are wrong, both are against the law. I don't think its ok to hit a child legally or morally, but I agree with the current sensible de minimis levels for prosecution and don't think that needs to change.

You might slap their hand away from something dangerous in a split second reaction. Not smacking. I’d do the same if DH was about to unknowingly touch something dangerous and I only had a second to stop him getting hurt.

Peachsummer

You would hit your OH? What a strange response.

Grabbing a hand, pushing or pulling it out of the way but hitting?

Quite disturbing if hitting is your "go to " response in an emergency.

I can't imagine hitting to avoid something dangerous.

Say you were out with an adult friend and she was about to step into the path of a car- I would pull, her, push her sideways, shout, grab her hand or coat, any number of things.

But to hit?

Quite bizarre.l

Smacking is abuse.

What I always fail to comprehend is parents who are absolutely outraged of the thought of any kind of physical punishment by teachers towards children in school (the thought of anyone in authority laying their hands on their precious child makes them apoplectic), yet they freely smack their own children at home.

You would hit your OH? What a strange response.
If for example he was about to touch a live electric wire without realising, then yes, in a split second I’d slap his hand away to prevent him being electrocuted.

I remember being smacked a few times as a child in rare occasions and I genuinely can’t get too upset about it.

I'm actually in disbelief at some of the posters on here who believe parents that smack their children should be prosecuted. And I mean smack/spank, I do not mean abuse. Who do you think would suffer as a result of trying to police this and with social services involvement? I'll tell you who, the children who are actually being abused and neglected. The ones who live their lives in fear and who run the risk of losing their lives due to horrific abuse. The ones who are neglected due to parents with alcohol and substance abuse. The ones being sexually abused. There is not an infinite pot of money and resources for children in the most need are already stretched and in many areas they are not getting the help they need. You would really advocate taking resources away from these children to start prosecuting parents who smack their kids on the bum?

Assault and abuse, it teaches nothing except the perpetration of violence.

Just 100% wrong. Always.