At what point does smacking children become abuse?

[Smackingchildren]

I am asking this out of curiosity as I know this type of discipline does go on (mostly behind closed doors). What is your opinion on smacking children? Do you find it to be an effective method of discipline?

I was 'smacked' as a child and teenager. It was never done in a constructive way, it was always because my dad had lost his temper. The 'smacking' would include being threatening, pushing me up and down stairs, shoving me, shouting in my face. This was mostly when I was a teenager, although there was some scattered throughout when I was younger. One such instance was when I was 3 years old and would continuously take the cushions off of the sofa and put them on the floor. My mum says that despite telling me many times to stop and doing the naughty step, I continued to do it, so my dad lost it and threw me up the stairs into my bedroom. This kind of behaviour from my parents probably happened a few times a year. My parents also used to say that I was the difficult child of the family and was always stubborn and argumentative.

Smacking didn't work for me. If anything it made me hate my dad and lose all respect for him. So rather than behaving, I would think 'well you clearly don't respect me so why should I respect you?!'

I have a five year old and I have never felt the need to smack him. Usually sending him to his room/taking a toy away/talking to him about why something is wrong stops the behaviour. I can with almost certainty say I will never smack him because of my own experience.

At what point does smacking become abusive, and do you think its an effective tool for discipline?

@Breathlessness

You’ve just jogged a memory. My grandmother once smacked me in the back to move me away from the stove - my hair was dangling in the burner and she couldn’t formulate the words in that moment to tell me to move, that my hair was on fire. She never smacked as punishment, ever, but it was a split-second reaction to a dangerous situation.

None of those things would be appropriate in an adult dynamic. Also, if you slapped another adult on the bum, you're not going to be in court

None of those are physically attacking another person, either

I wouldn’t need to smack my DH, I’d just leave him! But you can’t leave your kids for treating you badly and behaving terribly. I couldn’t imagine my DH repeatedly breaking things or hurting me despite being told not to 50 times in a row either.

So piss off with the stupid ‘you wouldn’t hit a partner or friend’ line.

Not saying I’d smack a child for anything either. Just pointing out how low thinking that argument is.

I am not responsible for the behaviour of any other adult. I am responsible for my child. I don’t smack my child and have no intention of doing so, but the boundaries aren’t the same so the logic of “You wouldn’t smack an adult” doesn’t work for me.

adaline No they would be considered mental abuse if done to another adult, so your point is?

It’s abuse, simple as that. If you feel like you are losing your temper, stand outside and take some deep breaths (or at least leave the room). I have locked myself in the bathroom before now to take a breather. There’s never any excuse to hit anyone, let alone a vulnerable child.

I was hit as a child by my step-father, it was abuse. I don’t just mean the odd slap, I mean he would continue hitting me hard until I stopped breathing. This happened a fair few times, I was also dragged along concrete by my arm (as though I were a wheely suitcase iykwim) a couple of times. No excuse for it, it was abuse then and it’s still abusive to do it now.

It’s abuse, simple as that. If you feel like you are losing your temper, stand outside and take some deep breaths (or at least leave the room). I have locked myself in the bathroom before now to take a breather. There’s never any excuse to hit anyone, let alone a vulnerable child

I got smacked, by both parents. One, it was loss of temper, and abusive and horrible. The other it wasn’t loss of temper.

It’s assault. One possible exception would be if a child would be about to touch something very sharp or hot and tapping their hand to stop them as you might an adult. But then you shouldn’t have that in reach of a small child anyway

I think it's pretty much always assault/ abuse.

I say pretty much because there could be a scenario where an adult hit back by reflex or accidentally hurt a child pulling them out of danger/ protecting a sibling etc. But I don't think this is what you mean!

I did smack DDs a few times when they were toddlers, though I don't think (and never thought) it is an acceptable form of punishment and really tried not to do it at all, and was absolutely at the end of my tether when I did it. Immediately and on an ongoing basis I made changes to address why it was happening, both in my parenting and lifestyle, and also realised I had mild to moderate depression, and it took a lot of lifestyle changes to get better.

I was smacked so hard by my mum that her hand print would be on my legs for days ( bruises ) she also hit us with sticks.
The sad thing is a lot of my friends were suffering similar. We just thought it was ‘normal’ - this went on from my earliest memory until mid teens.
I’m 56 now and still cry about it. ( inwardly )

@JacquesHammer the principles of all child discipline wouldn’t transfer to relationships/work place. Whatever ‘method’ you choice.

the principles of all child discipline wouldn’t transfer to relationships/work place. Whatever ‘method’ you choice

Well I always chose discussion. Much how I deal with relationships and work....

I was smacked as a child, and worse: beaten (punched/hit/slapped repeatedly), scratched deliberately, thrown on the floor and kicked. It was also accompanied by what I now realise is emotional abuse. Saying things like 'You are lucky we are your parents, any other family would have killed you by now'. It made me internalise that it was my fault that I was physically abused, and took therapy as an adult to realise it was wrong. My parents still won't admit that it was either abuse, or wrong.

Haven’t read the thread- has anyone called it “tapping” yet? Mentioned running into the road and putting fingers in electric sockets? Said that it doesn’t hurt?

I remember being smacked occasionally, always when I was doing something that endangered me, like running out into a road, and no it didn't hurt because it was never hard enough to hurt because they weren't trying to cause me pain.

I don't think what my parents did was abusive, but I have chosen not to smack my child. The world has moved on from 30/40 years ago.

As far as the law goes a blanket ban must be easier to enforce as it removes the quibbling about what is and isn't acceptable.

The only defences of smacking I’ve heard that seem to have any degree of logic behind them are those about smacking to stop a small child running into the road or to stop a toddler repeatedly reaching for something that will burn them. One off events in response to an immediate risk to a child that’s too young to reason with, where the physical risk is much more serious than a smack.

But even then, it makes much more sense to pull the child away from the road or the oven or whatever, explain why, and if necessary to threaten a punishment if they try to go back.

My parents used to smack. My recollection is that, virtually every time, it was simply that they were in a bad mood and were taking it out on us, and to this day I think the less of them for it.

But even then, it makes much more sense to pull the child away from the road or the oven or whatever, explain why, and if necessary to threaten a punishment if they try to go back.

Hmm. The problem with saying to a 3 year old that the oven is “hot” is that they have no conception of how hot. The bath water is “hot”. Their beans are “hot”.

I'm in my 40s and had friends' removed from their homes by SS due to their parents "smacking" them and my Head of Year seeing the marks.

Incidentally my mum would hit me so frequently I learnt to ignore her mainly because her discipline was inconsistent and I knew I would only get hit for anything she disagreed with. She got scare when I got infected insect bites around the same time my friends' got removed my SS as it looked like she had marked me. I had actually taken myself to the GP without telling her over the bites.

My dad on the other hand was a more of calmly ensuring you understood what you did was not a good idea. Though some of it was simply don't annoy your mother which helps explain why they weren't together.

I remember being smacked occasionally, always when I was doing something that endangered me, like running out into a road, and no it didn't hurt because it was never hard enough to hurt because they weren't trying to cause me pain

But why wouldn't your parents grab you and pull you back instead? What does "smacking" achieve? If your child is in danger of being run over, you don't hit them, do you? You grab them and move them out of the way!

I'm in my fifties. I can't remember either my mum or dad smacking me. Ever. Yet both could stop me in my tracks with a few shouted words. I have no idea what I was afraid of - I think it's because the raised voice was unusual so I knew I was in deep doo-dah!

We've never smacked DS either. We've physically removed him from doing something if he refuses to stop, we've put toys away if he's been vicious with them (throwing them around or at others when he was a toddler), we've used the naughty step - only a couple of times. After that the threat of 'stop that or it's the naughty step. I'm counting to three...one, two' never got as far as three. And now he's 12 we've thundered upstairs after him when he's had a tantrum - but I read a book saying if someone's tantruming keep talking in a low voice, they have to shut up or quieten down to listen to you. He gets away with very little - but at the moment he doesn't actually do much wrong. He's just having his pre-teen time and the odd tantrum, mouthing back or shouting is part of the course. He's learned the 'oh-oh I'm in doo dah' look on our faces and it seems to work at the moment. Ask me again in a couple of years....

Interesting thread, especially to see how it has impacted relationships with parents down the line.

My mum and dad smacked me. I would never ever smack my children, they're eight and we've made it so far. It just screams massive loss of control. What on earth are you teaching them if you smack them - that they can go and do it other people?!

I'm no angel, I've lost my rag many a time, but I won't resort to hitting my children.

I remember my mother's complete frustration and rage when she smacked me. As a parent of a toddler, I can understand both these feelings but I'm not sure I can forgive her for losing control as she did.

adaline

I suppose the obvious logic is that you are less likely to endanger yourself again.

Are you slapping a small child’s hand away from something dangerous (chord, knife etc)? I don’t think I could see that as abuse. They may not understand the danger (yet) and it’s done with the specific purpose of preventing danger / more pain.

But that’s the only somewhat justified smacking I could think of. (I’m nit saying it’s ideal but I don’t think I’d classify it as abuse...)